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Topic: PP or Legrande? |
Wayne Baker
From:
Altus Oklahoma
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Posted 30 Nov 2016 4:23 am |
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PP or Legrande for you Emmons players?
Please justify your position concerning your choice.
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Thanks,
Wayne Baker
USAF retired, three wars, 21 years, 18 countries. God bless the USA |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2016 8:54 am
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| PP's have the edge on tone but the LeGrandes have smoother action. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2016 11:27 am
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I like the feel of a push pull pedals and knee levers. They stay in tune better, the tone is better to my ears and they look sharp. LeGrands are nice and sound good but I prefer the push pull. My second choice below the p/p would be the SKH LeGrand.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 30 Nov 2016 12:21 pm
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Full disclosure: I don't play an Emmons.
P-Ps can not do splits. The LeGrand can. Personalty, I have found that the splits have opened up all sorts of possibilities in my playing, and I'd feel handicapped without them.
For that reason alone, if I were to switch to an Emmons, I'd choose the LeGrand.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 30 Nov 2016 12:54 pm
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I've owned both, but a lot more P/Ps, and only one LeGrande. I'd pick the P/P every time. It's the feedback from the guitar that I like, which is a combination of how it sounds, how it responds, and the way it makes me play. A good P/P feels alive in my hands in a way that no other guitar I've ever owned has. You either get that or you don't I suppose. The LeGrande I owned certainly wasn't a bad guitar, I just like the P/Ps better.
As for the lack of some of the modern features that LeGrandes and other newer guitars have, I get that for guys like Mike P. who actually know what they're playing. As for my hillbilly hacking, no problem. 
_________________
Lost Pines Studio
"I'm nuts about bolts" |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2016 1:29 pm
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[quote="Mike Perlowin"]
P-Ps can not do splits. The LeGrand can. Personalty, I have found that the splits have opened up all sorts of possibilities in my playing, and I'd feel handicapped without them.
quote]
Push Pulls can do splits Mike, just a little more trouble. I do have the 6th string split on mine and of course works a little different than an all pull. Splits not a game changer for me but I can see how they would help you in the material you play. I can't even pronounce stuff you play and good job by the way. Listened to your Icloud
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Nick Reed
From:
Russellville, KY USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2016 1:31 pm
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I have both . . . . . 3 push-pulls, and the green machine is a LeGrande III. I personally prefer my P/P's because of the way they feel. My P/P's are vintage and have aged enough where they have that special magic that a newer Steel has to wait years to get. Don't get me wrong, my LL-III is also a great guitar . . . but I just like the P/P's better. This is only my opinion, and really not worth a hellavalot since I'm not a pro-player.
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 30 Nov 2016 2:03 pm
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Kinda hard question to answer as they are different Instruments which in my mind are both excellent. I happen to own 2 P Pulls and a Legrande II. My favorite to play is the 81 P Pull, it just has something extra that jumps out after playing a few songs on a gig. But that doesn't mean I don't like playing the other two, I do, often. I play 3 or 4 regular gigs each month and I rotate Steels.
Yes, the P Pulls are a tad stiffer and play "harder" than the Legrande II but not that much , they each are very positive with pedal and knee lever action and response.
When I "track" my projects, it's hard to tell the difference between the Legrande and the P Pull. I have to listen very carefully a couple of months later because I really don't keep track of which one I play on each track, just a few tracks. BUT, I do play differently on the P Pull for some odd reason, I am told this by friends in the audience. It's probably related to suite spots that jump out on the P Pull.
The bigger question, at least to me is, are you one who tinkers with the underside and setup. Because this is where one can determine which one would be better suited for determining which one to own. If you are one who doesn't really understand ( or doesn't like to tinker) the setup of an ALL PULL GUITAR (Legrande) but can get by, then the Legrande is the choice. The Push Pulls have this so called mystery about them , which in the scheme of things is not difficult, but it is MUCH different to set up than an ALL PULL such as the Legrande. On the ALL PULL, each pull is simply laid out , on the Push Pull, several things come into play with each raise or lower. You can chase an out of tune raise or lower all day and not realize that you are looking in the wrong place.
Regarding tone and play-ability, you can't go wrong with either. You would be quite pleased with either.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 1 Dec 2016 3:58 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Lavon Chappell
From:
The Heart of Dixie
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Posted 30 Nov 2016 10:03 pm
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[quote="Henry Matthews"][quote="Mike Perlowin"]
P-Ps can not do splits. The LeGrand can. Personalty, I have found that the splits have opened up all sorts of possibilities in my playing, and I'd feel handicapped without them.
quote]
Push Pulls can do splits Mike, just a little more trouble. I do have the 6th string split on mine and of course works a little different than an all pull. Splits not a game changer for me but I can see how they would help you in the material you play. I can't even pronounce stuff you play and good job by the way. Listened to your Icloud
How can you get the sixth string split?
I would like that on my pp's |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2016 10:29 pm The Tone of an Emmons.
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| Having owned a S-10 Push- Pull, and currently a LeGrande II D-10, there certainly is a difference in tone to my ear. They both sound great but the Push-Pull had something in its tone that was just different than the LeGrande to me. Not knowing anything about setting it up was why I traded it off to my friend Johnie Helms, after I bought my LeGrande. The LeGrande has that Emmons mojo, is easily adjustable, stays in tune, rarely breaks strings, and always sounds like an Emmons should. It's just not a Push-Pull. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2016 2:44 am
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 1 Dec 2016 3:26 am
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Thank you Henry for the kind words regarding my recordings.
I am not going to switch from my 2 MSA to a pair of push pulls. But I think a lot of people would want to know how to get tuned splits on them.
This subject is worthy of a new thread, with detailed description of how it's done.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Dec 2016 8:28 am
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Starting off, I guess I should admit I'm not a guitar tone-freak, inasmuch as I'm more inclined to just appreciate and accept the tone of each guitar, rather than try to make judgments about which is "best". So, given the choice, I think I'd rather play a Legrande than a p/p. I've had an '80s p/p for many years, but rarely play it, as I prefer the more precision feel and ease of adjustment of an all-pull guitar. (I've never owned a Legrande, but have played them.) I do also play an old cable Fender, but that's out of nostalgia, and for fun. That was my first pedal steel, and I suppose that if I'd started on a p/p, I might have the same feeling towards them.
My advice would be - just buy whatever you like, and play it; you can make good music out of anything. The biggest limiting factor is always between the seat and the steel.  |
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Kyle Everson
From:
Nashville, Tennessee
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Posted 1 Dec 2016 11:33 am
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| If properly set up, push pulls can play just as easy as LeGrandes. I preferred the tone of my push pull, so I sold my LeGrande II. The LeGrande had a muffled sound compared to the push pull. More clearly-defined mids in the push pull. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 1 Dec 2016 12:45 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
Starting off, I guess I should admit I'm not a guitar tone-freak, inasmuch as I'm more inclined to just appreciate and accept the tone of each guitar, rather than try to make judgments about which is "best". ...
My advice would be - just buy whatever you like, and play it; you can make good music out of anything. The biggest limiting factor is always between the seat and the steel. |
Donny is right. When we play out, the audience doesn't even notice, let alone care about, all the things we obsess over. They don't know or care about what make and model of steel or amp, or the gauge of the picks or whether we are using nickle or stainless steel strings, or what knee the E string raises and lowers are on.
"just buy whatever you like, and play it." Right on Donny.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Lavon Chappell
From:
The Heart of Dixie
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Posted 1 Dec 2016 9:29 pm
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| As long as it has Emmons on the front they all sound great to me.And my push pulls plays as good as my LLIII. Just wish I cloud lower and raise on the pp's for the spilts |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 Dec 2016 1:40 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
When we play out, the audience doesn't even notice, let alone care about, all the things we obsess over. They don't know or care about what make and model of steel or amp, or the gauge of the picks or whether we are using nickle or stainless steel strings, or what knee the E string raises and lowers are on.
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While that is 100% true, it doesn't consider the other side of the equation, which is the player and our personal desire or preference.
Of course we can perform on any brand of guitar but thats only part of being a musician, otherwise we would all still be playing Mavericks or driving Vega's.
Selecting an instrument and feeling good about it is equal to the performing part, even if we never play out on a gig. Our instruments are part of our personal "being". That part of it has nothing do do with actually playing the music. It also has nothing to do with which brand is best or which tone is best. Thats all just opinion anyway.
I happen to only play Telecasters that read "FENDER" on the head stock , that is my desire. I don't much care if you bring me a better guitar with brand X on the head stock, I'm sure it's nice, but it's not what I personally want. I don't even care if mine cost $1500 and the one you show me only costs $299.
Same thing with our Steel guitars.
We are not a ONE BRAND , ONE MODEL fits all society, thank god ! We may very well all play the same songs, no doubt , but thats not who we are individually.
Oh and this, although the audience may not care what brands of Steels we play in general, all it takes is one or two to tell us that our "brand X' sounded great tonight". BINGO ! I think some in the audience may be more aware than we may think. I play two steady shows each month and for certain there are 5 or 6 that comment on which Instrument I happen to be playing and that generates excellent small talk , which is as much fun as the gig itself. I generally play one of the Emmons Steels which always generates nice discussion after the show, but if I happen to bring out the Sho Bud, good god, it's like I committed a crime ! 
"Tony, what happened you don't like the Emmons anymore " ?
By the way, my Motorola Smart phone is much better than your LG Smart phone. 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Doug Palmer
From:
Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2016 5:21 am Emmons
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I play both LeGrande and Push Pull Emmons guitars. When I see or hear recordings of our band I can't tell the difference. I have reduced the impedance of my LeGrande pick-up from 20K down to 17.5K and that might be why. I prefer the mechanics of the all pull and play it most of the time now. Either way you can't go wrong with an Emmons.
_________________
Emmons D-10, ST-10,LD-10 III, NV-112,Fender Deluxe Reverb. Authorized wholesale dealer musicorp.com! |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2016 8:19 am
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Over the decades I have been fortunate to have had many Emmons, both p/p's and all-pull LeGrandes. I only have push-pulls now but I've had some real nice, if not outstanding LeGrandes. Yeah, I know all the arguments, but my experience with 20 or so of these beasts is that a push-pull, however well set up by a top guru, isn't quite as mechanically smooth as an all-pull. Nor, to my ears, are they as fast in some pulls, by a few milliseconds or whatever.
In the end, that doesn't matter to me. For decades my go-to, gigging steel has been a trusty 81' D10 push-pull. Sitting down to it is like putting on an old shoe, so to speak. Dang thing sounds great, works well, and stays in tune rock solid. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2016 9:04 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| Of course we can perform on any brand of guitar but thats only part of being a musician, otherwise we would all still be playing Mavericks or driving Vega's. |
Or perhaps driving Mavericks or playing Vegas. |
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