Why?

William Kendrick · Posted 8 Nov 2016 1:13 pm

I just changed the strings on my PSG. Why would all the knee levers need to be tuned in? The D lever (lowers the E's), the F lever (raises the E's), and the RKL lever (that lowers the 6th string from G# to F#) is so far out that I can't even get the finger to touch the tuning screw). Before I changed the strings, they were perfect. Any explanation? Thanks.
Bill
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1979 Emmons D-10 P/P 8X5, Lawrence L-710 Pickups, Li'l Izzy, Telonics Volume Pedal, Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Lexicon MX200 Dual Reverb Effects Processor, Peavey Vegas 400 Amplifier.

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

Heavier gauge strings require more throw-travel to raise and lower than do light gauge. Stainless wound strings require less throw than nickel. And even different brands can make a difference. Example. S.I.T verse Jagwire. The S.I.T's will require a little more throw than Jags. All things being equal.

b.

Dick Wood · From: Springtown Texas, USA

Did you change your 6th from a plain to a wound by any chance?

If not then over time,you may have little by little tuned the hex tuning nut in too far.Loosen it to the point it has no effect on the string. Tune the string to pitch open and then attempt to tune the 6th with the hex tuning nut.
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William Kendrick · Posted 8 Nov 2016 2:36 pm

Thanks, Bobby and Dick. Bobby, I put on JagWire stainless. Dick - YES I DID. Thank you. I will change it tonight back to a plain and see what happens.
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1979 Emmons D-10 P/P 8X5, Lawrence L-710 Pickups, Li'l Izzy, Telonics Volume Pedal, Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Lexicon MX200 Dual Reverb Effects Processor, Peavey Vegas 400 Amplifier.

Dick Wood · From: Springtown Texas, USA

A wound string requires a much further travel than the plain will.If that set was gauged for a wound 6th then when you go back to a plain,be sure the other strings are gauged for a plain or you will most likely get bar rattle around the smaller plain string.
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William Kendrick · Posted 8 Nov 2016 2:46 pm

Thanks, Dick. I'll change the whole set.
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1979 Emmons D-10 P/P 8X5, Lawrence L-710 Pickups, Li'l Izzy, Telonics Volume Pedal, Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Lexicon MX200 Dual Reverb Effects Processor, Peavey Vegas 400 Amplifier.

William Kendrick · Posted 8 Nov 2016 4:59 pm

BINGO! Took off 22W and put on 22P. Everything is fine. Thank you!
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1979 Emmons D-10 P/P 8X5, Lawrence L-710 Pickups, Li'l Izzy, Telonics Volume Pedal, Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Lexicon MX200 Dual Reverb Effects Processor, Peavey Vegas 400 Amplifier.

William Kendrick · Posted 8 Nov 2016 5:05 pm

And to your point, Dick - I will change the whole set tomorrow.
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1979 Emmons D-10 P/P 8X5, Lawrence L-710 Pickups, Li'l Izzy, Telonics Volume Pedal, Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Lexicon MX200 Dual Reverb Effects Processor, Peavey Vegas 400 Amplifier.

Dick Wood · From: Springtown Texas, USA

Glad I could help. Now go forth and make beautiful music.
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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Wayne Ledbetter · From: Arkansas, USA

According to old Sho Bud manual the strings that require the most travel are circled. The E9 side shows that non wound strings are circled versus no circle on the wound string. So I would deduce that typically non wound strings require more travel.
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

If you replace .017 with .018, you'll have to back out the tuning nut. The .018 is a shorter pull.

Now, if you replace .020 plain with .022 wound, it's a different situation. The wound string's core is much thinner than .020. That's why it requires a much longer travel.

The amount of travel on wound strings is determined by the gauge of the string's core, which can vary from one brand to another.
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Wayne Ledbetter · From: Arkansas, USA

Interesting explanation.
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Sho Bud Super Pro, Fender Twin Reissue, Martin HD-28, Gibson J-45, Gibson RB-250,Stelling Bellflower,Regal Dobro, Takamine and Alvarez Classical, Fender Telecaster, Peavey Studio Pro 112. Mainly played Gospel and some bluegrass.

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Bobby, that's because gauge has an effect on pitch response to finger movement, but tension has a greater effect.
Thinner wire at the same tension will have a somewhat slower response than a thicker wire.
So a 0.017 at 22 pounds will need more travel to pull a whole step than a 0.018. BUT the 18 will be under greater tension at the same note.
It's wacky. It makes my brain hurt.
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Stuart Legg · Posted 20 Nov 2016 9:13 am

There are all the adjustment capabilities in most PSGs to adjust the tuning cares of any reasonable gauge applicable string.
I should think it a worthwhile endeavor to learn at least that basic mechanical aspect of the PSG
Then you can forget about this gauge needs more or less travel and just adjust the damn thing!!

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Bobby Boggs; your test changed the tension, but not the gauge of the string. Seriously, put a .015 on your 4th string, tune it to E and check your F lever. It will be sharper than it was with the .014.
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Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

b0b again with respect. 1/2 tone raise won't make much difference when moving from 14 to a 15. Whole tone pulls and greater is where it really shows up.

Think about all the the threads we have here where someone has just changed strings, and their guitar will no longer pull to pitch. Not even counting the ones where folks go from a 22 plain to 22 wound. Yes, it takes much more throw for a 22 wound than a 22 plain. However, Most times they've gone from light gauge strings to heavy. And they either have to hook higher in the bell crank or add travel to the pull train.

One more example from me. On a 14 hole bell crank Lashley. I can hook 2 holes lower for the 6th string raise if I use a 20, which I do. Than if I use 22 plain.

For Stuart. All builders that I know of. Set up new guitars to handle either light or heavy gauge strings. Also the lower return springs are adjusted tighter than they have to be. This of course makes for pedals and knee levers that are a little stiffer than they have to be. But, it keeps people from calling the builders every time they go from light to heavy strings. Or after the lower return springs get a little ware on them. They're still more than tight enough to do the job. Again, no need to bug the builder.

b.

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