Ernie Hagar's tuning

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

For the first time I took a close look Ernie's tuning from the Winnie Winston book. It's like an E9 tuning but bassackwards! The guitar is tuned to an A6 as if the A & B pedals were activated. The A pedal drops the C# to a B and the B pedal drops the A to a G#. The C pedal raises the E to F# to get the minor chord. This actually looks cool.

Doesn't one other well known player do this, too? Has any one else tried this? I'm curious to what you guys have to say about it. I think that I would like it because a lot of my licks are done with A & B pedals down and lot's of bar movement. I may try it on my old Bud just for kicks!

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Dave Zirbel-
ZB Custom D-10 8 x 5, S-12U Kline 7 x6, Dobro Cyclops reissue, 1967 Fender Telecaster, Webb 6-14E, Fender Super Reverb
The Mother Truckers

[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 03 November 2004 at 07:40 PM.]

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Dave-How is it going in my old stamping grounds, Sonoma County.?

Dave, that way of tuning has been done by many players over the year long , long ago.
Even Reece used those changes on his Bb6 tuning.

Bud Issac actually did it in 1953 when he recorded "slowly"tBut but he had both changes on one pedal.

It was a good way to get E9 and A6 on one tuning with just a very few pedals needed. Those drops , as you have noticed, gives a double usage for those two pedals. They make a lot of nice changes for jazz an pop too.

But it was hard to drop the high A to G#, and back then it was easier and faster to RAISE the notes on the guitars available then and was more generally accepted, so now we have E9 with the A and B raises....Just a little bit of history...al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

If memory serves, I think Sonny Curtis does the same sort of thing. A6 was a very popular tuning when pedals came along. It was a pretty logical thing to do if you were already playing a lot of A6.

Both of those guys are Forum members. Maybe they'll chime in. (hint, hint...)

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

Thanks Al and Bobby for the history. I didn't realize it was that common. Still I would like to try it. My leg gets tired from pumping those pedals. Maybe there would be less pedaling and it looks like where two pedals are usually used, there would only be one.

Al, I've only been in Sonoma County since 1990, but I would say your old stomping grounds are getting stomped on. Every time I drive somewhere that I haven't been in a few months, I seem to notice a new housing tract or a shopping plaza/Walmart or something. Still, it's better than the suburban wastelands of the San Gabriel Valley where I'm from. That's in Los Angeles County.

b0b, you gotta check out the Kline sometime. It's a fine instrument.

Dave

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I immediately though to Reece's Bb6 on this post.

I have been thinking of adding aproximately this set of changes to my C6 neck since St Louis.
I tried a Fessie there with an inverted P6 lever and also David Wright's Bb6.

But I was just too ill or busy since I got back,
to finalize my logic and do the installation.
I have all the parts now for levers 6+7 on C6.
But where to put which changes
I am sure a 2nd LK and a seconfd RKR.

After some thought..
I already lower my E's to Eb
and my C to B
If I went the full step on both,
but with a 1/2 stop mechanism I would have this whole change on existing levers.

Or the A's to Bb lever would change 9 to minor III,
but leaves that major III right next to it. A bit dangerous.
Unless I could, at the same time, easily hit Cs to C# on LKV.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 November 2004 at 07:54 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Blackie Taylor has been doing the A6th thing for the 40 years or so that I've known him and before that. Blackie plays a 12 string tuned to A6th. His entire tuning low to high is: A E A C# E F# A C# E A D# F#. His first pedal lowers strings 5 and 9 (C# to B) and his 2nd pedal lowers strings 3, 6, and 10 (A to G#). The rest of the changes are for the 6th stuff. He's also got a knee lever which raises the 4th string E to F# for those Ralph Mooney licks. I don't know if he still does it, but he used to have a BooWah pedal which lowered that 12th string A down to an F# along with some other changes. That was a low drop for sure. I'd known Blackie for a good while but had never heard him at a gig so one night I went to a club in Lomita, California to hear him. As I got out of the car I heard the band inside and the steel player was playing the best Mooney licks I'd ever heard and for sure it was old Blackie. He had that system down to a tee where you couldn't tell he wasn't playing E9th. At that time Blackie was playing a Fender 400 which was originally an 8 string but he and Gene Fields had rebuilt the changer and all and converted it to a 12 string. He has just recently reaquired that guitar. If you're ever in Riverside,Ca. stop by his shop to look at it. That thing's a piece of work for sure. I had an old Fender 1000 at one point which had the E9 and A6 on it and tried that way of playing but I just couldn't quite get the hang of it. Have a good 'un...JH

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

I guess the string gauges wouldn't really have to change.

Jerry, I visit Blackie about once a year but never heard him play.

Dave

[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 04 November 2004 at 07:42 AM.]

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

I messed around with an old Fender 400 we took in trade at the music store where I worked in the early 70's and seem to recall that it was tuned A6th and the pedals were all set as lowers and this was the tuning in the Fender Owners manual that came with it.
JE:-)>

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Emmons D10 8/4 P/P -75'
Fessenden SD-10 3/5
MSA SD-12 4/4 - 76'
76'Session 400
86'Nashville 400
Bandit 112

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Here's a copy of that 400 manual.
It's interesting historically. I wouldn't advise many people to use these tunings anymore, but I've been having a lot of fun with a modified A6 on my 400 for awhile now.
The standard E9 and C6 tunings evolved into what they are for a lot of good reasons, but there's a lot of fun stuff in the A6 for curious explorers.

As you'll see, it's got the lowers to E9 as well as a couple of the stock C6 changes.
[url=http://www.mrgearhead.com/faq/diagrams/OWNERS%20MANUALS/FENDER%20INSTRUMENT%20OWNERS%20MANUALS/Fender%20400%20Pedal%20Steel%20Guitar%20(1967).pdf]http://www.mrgearhead.com/faq/diagrams/OWNERS%20MANUALS/FENDER%20INSTRUMENT%20OWNERS%20MANUALS/Fender%20400%20Pedal%20Steel%20Guitar%20(1967).pdf[/url]

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Wow.......John,
Thanks a bunch for the Fender 400 manual. I've wanted one of these for a long time. I'm printing it out as we speak.

Dave, next time you're at his store, have ol' Blackie pick a little for you. The old fart's pretty good!! Have a great day..JH

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

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