MSA D10 Classic problems and plans.

Al Evans · From: Austin, Texas, USA

I'm starting to get a handle on the few little problems with my new old MSA.

The most important one is that, after pushing the knee lever to lower the E strings -- I'm at a total loss whether to call it LKL (for lower) or LKR (because it's on the right) -- the 4th string comes back flat unless I blip the raise lever or reach under and push the reverser link or push that lower finger back into place.

If I test it from the underside, I can feel a little glitch in the lower finger as I push it back into place.

I couldn't see how to clean it without some disassembly, and I'm surely not up to removing and cleaning the changer yet. The return springs looked like they were probably the original ones, except for that one, which looked like it had been replaced and felt a little wimpy.

I can't really afford to get the spiffy adjustable ones at this point, so I ordered a set of regular springs and I'll see what happens. I figure if the original ones have lasted over 40 years, they must not suck too badly.

There's a vertical left knee lever, and it has over an inch of free play. Watching it work showed that there was no stop for it except the actuator hitting the bottom of the body, and it didn't look like there was any room for a stop on the side, since that cross shaft is in among the reversing mechanism.

I'm not to a point where I have a use for this lever yet. When I am, I'm thinking I'll just glue a spacer to the part of the actuator that hits the bottom of the body and make it stop where I want.

Finally, the right knee lever that lowers the D# to D in the first half, then both the 2nd and 9th strings to C#, is not getting the full step lower on the 2nd string. I think this is just a question of changing holes on the relevant bell crank.

This is nothing but the results of a first examination by a neophyte. If you guys see something I'm wrong about, or something I could better accomplish another way, or just feel like educating the ignorant -- I'd sure like to hear it!

--Al Evans
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2018 MSA Legend, 2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Al, first things first. When you say "it comes back flat", you should always say "how much". A little bit (say 3 to 5 cents on a tuner) is just probably hysteresis and is perfectly acceptable. Unless you can easily hear it, it's something that's fine to ignore. Your problem sounds like a weak spring or sticky changer, so I'd try a little oil first. As to the one spring that's weak, just exchange it for another (on a string that;s not being raised or lowered) and see if that fixes the problem, and remember that all the fingers should be pulled firmly against the stop-bar when no pedals or levers are activated. As far as the vertical lever stop and free play, different players like different amounts. As long as any fix you make is mechanically sound and doesn't affect the changer action, it's okay.

Al Evans · From: Austin, Texas, USA

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Try swapping that lowering spring with another, first. If that doesn't help, remove the string and the lowering spring so it will be easier to see how freely the raise and lower fingers are moving. With your fingers, move them back and forth both together and separately, and it'll be easy to feel if they are still "sticky".

I'm not a big fan of Tri-flow or any other "dry" lubricants. I prefer to use a good grade of sewing machine or gun oil, as they will continue to migrate and move by capillary action to areas that need lubrication - dry lubes will not do that.

Tony Dingus · From: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA

I had that problem with a MSA Vintage XL and the cross shaft didn't have any slack and that made a bind. I moved the lever bell crank just a hair from the side of the guitar and that fixed it. Donny I hadn't thought about switching springs instead of cutting a piece off. I'll remember that.

Tony

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I like Singer sewing machine oil, RemOil or Marvel Mystery oil. Oil the roller nuts also to prevent tuning issues. Good luck. ( my sources: Singer Oil- Terry Bethel, Rem Oil- Bobby Bowman & MM Oil- Bill Stafford.)

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

If you say you feel a hitch or notch, you need to find out whether it's in the pull train (most likely) or whether something is interfering with the scissor action (less likely, and most likely a ball end stuck in the finger).
Take a Phillips head screwdriver and push on the other lowering hole of the 4th string, drop it past D#, and then release it slowly. If the string comes back, then there's something sticking in the pull train.
Since your guitar is over thirty years old, let's make sure that you still have the spacer tubes: pull rod threads hanging on the scissors can cause it, that's why the spacer tubes are there.
If it's in the pull train, you'll have to do your own detective work. The good news is that when you find the problem, the solution usually suggests itself.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

I agree with Lane, but will add that IMHO you should disconnect the pull rod from the string in question...Push the finger in where the nylon tuner was, about a half tone just like the original change.. If it still comes back flat, but returns to pitch with slight finger on the finger toward the back of the guitar, just tighten the spring tension a tad by removing a coil, or simply replace it. Its possible there could be some binding in the changer I suppose, but those old MSA changers are virtually indestructible and seldom bind up even when dirty..
If after removing the rod it comes back in tune continually, there's something catching, binding, dry, worn, etc in the pull train between the changer and the lever... All I can say is that in my experience with MSA guitars which goes back over 40 years, there is seldom any "problem" with them that can't be fixed in less than 10 minutes.. The main problem with what you described to us is simple. I have found over the years it has been a weakening of the return spring, and that can be fixed in a minute with a side cutter...bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......

Al Evans · From: Austin, Texas, USA

Tony Dingus · From: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA

That's great. Those guitars play good and sound good too. Glad I was able to help.

Tony

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