Why 11 strings on E-9TH

Kenneth Kotsay · From: Davie/Ft Lauderdale, Florida

So what's the purpose for having 11 strings on the E-9th or even going to 13, 14 strings on E-9th?

Ken

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Low notes.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video

Ken Pippus · From: Langford, BC, Canada

And a root on the bottom.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

wider voicing spectrum.

Jeremy Threlfall · From: now in Western Australia

excuse to buy a bigger bar
_________________
Luke Drifter on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ralwaybell
https://www.facebook.com/jeremy.j.threlfall
http://ralwaybell.bandcamp.com/

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

A low E string. Same note as low E on a gtr.
Very cool. Worked for Tom Brumley...

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Baby steps toward a 12 string. Cool

Jeff Harbour · From: Western Ohio, USA

Famous Movie Quote:

"Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?.....

Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?.....

Eleven. Exactly. One louder."

B. Greg Jones · From: Middleport, Ohio USA

I do believe that Tom Brumley was the one to come up with the 11th string tuned to a low E. When he was still using a D-10 with Buck, he had his 10th string tuned to the low E with no change on that string. In 1966 Zane built him the 1st D-11. Tom said he came up with that idea to cover the guitar licks when Don Rich was singing harmony and it later opened up all kinds of things for him. I have several 11 stringers, ZB's and a Mullen SD-11 including one of Tom's personal guitars and really like the 11 string tuning. It does help with a small 4 piece band when the guitar player is playing a lead or fills as would an ext. E9th 12 string.

Greg

John Goux · From: California, USA

The Brumley 11 string tuning with a low E under the standard E9 would be effective and relatively easy to adjust to.

I'm currently working on 12 string Ext E9 after being a 10 string player. It does add a layer of difficulty, finding the dyadic string grips in a group of 12. Seems like 11 would be perfect number of strings to give you the low E, less visual clutter, and more grips on adjacent strings.

I have found the low G# in Ext E9 to be really useful. With the B pedal, it gives you a full octave of pedals down licks and melodies below the standard E9 box, along with some rich sounding chords for playing rhythm.
An 11 string setup with the low G# seems like it would be ideal. You would lose the 9th string D, and make the bottom up be E G# B E F#, with a pedal to lower the middle E to D. The D is useful for playing jazzy chords and string 8 is the obvious choice.
Some may call this an 11 string Uni for the omission of the D string.

It would have multiple benefits:
Low E
Extra lower octave of pedals down licks(using the G# to A already on guitar)
Sacred steel type low tuning, which is great for rhythm, rock n roll, and the thumb pick strum across consonant low strings.
Pedal for E to D maintains the useful D
Pedal for F# to E gives you a Sacred Steel low end.
One less string to deal with than 12. The grips would have adjacent strings. Easier.
Any 12 string could be converted.
Strings 8 thru 1 are identical to standard 10 string E9.

I intend to try this at some point. It will be an investment of time and money. But it seems ideal, the best of both worlds, on paper.

Anyone tried this 11 string tuning?
John

Jeff Harbour · From: Western Ohio, USA

John, that seems to me to be a very well thought-out use of eleven strings.

To elaborate on that idea a bit, I would offer an alternative to those who would prefer to keep the D. On the E9 neck of my D10, I lower the low B down to G# on a pedal. I do this because I like the sound of the 3rd being at the bottom of the open chord. Losing the low 5th usually isn't a big deal since it's the most expendable chord tone.

With that change added to the Brumley tuning, you would get the low G#, but be able to maintain the typical sequence of the top ten strings. I guess the downside is that you don't have the B-pedal licks possible in the low register, but maybe some who want to keep the D would be willing to sacrafice.

This is strictly theory here. I've never tried an 11-string E9.

John Goux · From: California, USA

Hey Jeff, on your guitar with the B to G# lower, do you have a way to hit an A on the same string? It would give you a low root on an A chord. It would also open up some possibilities in the key of D and G, especially for those with a G# to G change. And we know how songwriters and indie bands love D and G.

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

I played an S-11 RusLer, which, I still have for 27 years. The low E string was great for vamping chords and also for playing Memphis type licks. I did set it up to lower to D# and to raise to F, but, I never liked the way it sounded. So, I removed those changes and kept it straight. I found many ways to use it, but, it's too hard for me to explain in writing.

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

As a former S-12U player, on my 10 string MSA, I have used that 10 slot for the low E, it is very useful to me, I do lower it a whole tone on a lever & raise it up 1/2 on my 4th pedal, I do have 5 pedals on my E9th/B6[almost] tuning. I really like having that bass note on the chords in the bottom, makes for great rhythm sound. I know that most pickers don't have more than 3 or 4 pedals on E9th, so I guess I could be called 'unnormal', at least thats what my wife says!!

Ernie

John Goux · From: California, USA

Ernie, nice solution to get the Low E on a 10 string.

Your coped is very interesting. Low E on bottom, no D string(D with pedals), and no C pedal. And your have a double stop on LKL to give you both F and F# on string 4.
I see you have the third pedal making F's on 7 and 10.

Questions:
How well does the LKL Str 4 to F and F# work? Can you hit the F reliably without overshooting? Is the F# on a lever fast enough in AB licks? Looks like you get a 2 minor with AB/LKL?
On your third pedal F's, how do you use it? Some use the Str 7 F to fill out the first inversion major chord(C#maj), but I don't see how you can hit A/F and the third "C" pedal together.

Thanks, john

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

I am so used to using this tuning, that it just come natural for me, the F to F# does catch the 8th string half way, that helps, but I have not had a problem with it. Since I lower my 4+8th to Eb, that puts me in a B6th tuning, I use the lowering of the F# to F to get a little of the '5th pedal' sound on my B6th side, my 3rd, 4th & 5th pedals are used mainly on the B6th [E to Ebs engaged] side. When I played D-10's & 12 string Universal, I used that pedal a lot with the BooWah pedal, but I don't have that but have figured ways around that also. I know, any tuning, other that the normal, is going to be a compromise, but if your nutty enough to train your brain to it, many things can be done with it.

Ernie Pollock
301-26-4172 Oh Well

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I have always felt that a pedal steel should be able to play any note that a standard guitar can play. We should be able to swap parts with lead guitar players, or cover for them if they call in sick on a gig. The intro to Folsom Prison isn't that hard to play. No excuses. Even my little 8-string Desert Rose goes down to E.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

no offense to anyone, but....
threads like this suggest lots of ideas to consider,
but what really matters is how you use those ideas.
so tune your steel up how you think you want it and play it. find out how useful your ideas are.
one day of playing with it will be more informative
than a month of discussion.

John Goux · From: California, USA

Retuning a steel takes a few minutes.
Re rodding a PSG is a big investment of time and money. Discussing this with people who have already been down these roads, and found solutions, is one of the benefits of the forum.
J

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

December 2, 2015 I cased up my S10 E9 MSA and put it under the bed. Pulled out and set up a GFI S12U that I bought last summer and dived in to the unknown. I would not want to go back to a 10 E9. With strings 8-E, 9-B, 10-G# 11-E on the Universal open tuning, It gives you a mellow pocket, For some great licks lower than 4-5-6 or 5-6-8, Especially with a female singer. The 12-B string is to bass and walks over the bass guitar in E9th, It is more for the B6 side. Still finding things in the dark side of a 12U. BJ

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Hmmm!Now this thread has got me thinkin'and that's a dangerous thing Winking

_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952.

Benjamin Franz · From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

John Goux · From: California, USA

Not for me, either.
J

Jeff Harbour · From: Western Ohio, USA

Forum Index > Pedal Steel	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic