? 'bout a chord, D-Tuning

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

What chord is this? D-tuning, but I'm playing in the Key of G.
1st and 2nd strings at the 9th fret.
3rd and 4th strings at the 10th fret.
Notes are, High to Low, B, F#, E, C.
I've transposed the Errol Garner arrangement of "Misty" into G. He plays the first two melody notes against a D13. I'm playing either an Am11, or a C9, with a D in the bass for the first chord melody note. This "unknown" (by me) chord is the second note, and I play an A in the bass. This chord resolves to Gmaj7.
Can anyone tell me the correct, for the Key of G names for these chords?

edited to correct typo, missing #

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

Moved to Music from Steel Without Pedals.

I'd call that a C9 chord myself.
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John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

C9th? I thought a C9th had a C, and E, a Bb, a D, and a G! This chord is C, E, F#, B, low to high. With a D in the bass.

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

I'm sorry, I must have read this incorrectly due to the missing sharp.

D C E F# B could be interpreted as a B minor of some sort, with the third in the bass. You say that you're playing this with a D in the bass or with an A?

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Brad, I play the first chord with the D, in the bass. When I play the second, mystery, chord, I play the A in the bass. But I don't really think it's the root of the chord. More of an example of the bass walking up towards the Gmaj7th chord. Course Ami9 would make pretty good sense. It's sure a chord I've never heard on bottleneck before! But, somebody, sometime has fur shure, done it before.
When ZAZA gets back from his European tour, I will record it and post. I'm starting to work on the chorus today. Verses are basically done.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

First three melody notes are the high string of the chords.
First chord is: slide straight across the 10th fret, pinky frets 1st string at 12th fret.
The second is the slanted one we're talkin about, which resolves to the Gmaj7. The Gmaj7 is: bar straight across all 6 strings at the 5th fret, while the index finger frets the 1st string. behind the slide, at the 4th fret.
The lyric line "I'm as" is done with octave notes on the 2nd and 5th strings which leads to "help-",a Dm7 chord. Dm7 is 5th and 6th strings open, strings 1 thru 4 barred at the 3rd fret with the slide. Then way up the neck to "-less", an Am on the 14th fret. It's another slide slant.

Fred · From: Amesbury, MA

It looks like a D13 to me
D F# A C E B
Root 3 5 b7 9 13 (no 11)
There's no root and has the fifth in the bass.

This makes sense as it's a V chord going to the I(Gmaj7)

Fred

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Fred, the Errol Garner arrangement says (transposed from Eb) that he uses D13 for the first two melody notes, but it sounds to me like each melody note has a completely different chord. Steve Norman has named the second chord as an F#sus4 add 7b5, explaining that the F#, being the maj 7th of G, resolves into the Gmaj7th chord.
The first chord is, hi to lo, D, G, E, C, with a D in the bass. C9th? Ami11? Wish I knew more theory! But I want to get it as right as possible for a transcription, cuz it ain't normal for bottleneck. There's actually almost no sliding, and a lot of pick-blocking involved. Thanks!
There are now two threads. The other is here:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1141275#1141275

Fred · From: Amesbury, MA

John,

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Oh Fred! It helps, and reaffirms my uneducated guesses. With D-tuning on bottleneck, even with fretting above and behind the slide, I'm often able to only do partials, and imply what the chord actually is. Thanks for your help!

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

C-E-F#-B. There was a trend in jazz for awhile to lower the 5ths of otherwise non-diminished chords. This could be a CM7b5. But in my theoruy classes I was taught that alot depends on what comes before and what comes after. Oh, there's a D? Make that CM9b5. If it goes to a G major chord of some type, I would agree that it is a D13.
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basilh · From: United Kingdom

D13/A
Being as the B is ABOVE the C, then it's obviously a thirteenth, it's not always practical or indeed necessary to include the 11th note.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Thank you all!

Stuart Legg · Posted 2 Apr 2008 3:45 pm

It's a D13th

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

Not meaning to be overly verbose; But answering the question with the best intentions for the context and inquisitiveness I interpret it being asked:

Writing a chord's context for loose musical purposes can be as varied as the opinions of how / why to write it certain ways. Any chord can be loosely expressed relative to any other of the 7 notes in the chord's scale / mode. But "clinically" speaking: Naming a chord is usually to give or restrict liberty for accompanyment while defing the root tone intended. If the subject chord of this discussion thread would be stated for only the dobro voicing, particularly in the finger / slide form shown, ...then it would likely have to be specified in staff or in shorthand above whatever type of score notation was being used ...probably with some sort of tablature note as well, ...and could be broadly stated as D11add13 (the first two notes of the song are over a V tone ....the third note a I tone) ...unless some other root context's "abnormal" voicing was desired for one or more accompanying instruments, particularly a bass instrument (staff again for a specific restricted voicing); And even a different chord could be written on separate instruments' scores to define the voicing liberty or restriction desired for each instrument. But if avoiding the 4 note tension was not a factor in accompanyment allowance, ....then D13 would also be correct. The safe chord for all accompanyment would be D7 ....or D even safer ....except for any instrument desired to express certain extension note(s) via their score; Write D13 on a general score and you're giving the band liberty to play any of every note in the root and mode scale voiced in several octaves . ------- But on the other hand, sometimes stating a chord differently, out of root context, can be easier to define a specific voicing desired for all, some or specific instruments. ------- As a good generality: When it's possible or plausible, it is good to pacify the players (make them feel at ease and not uneasy) by defining a chord in the root tone context it is intended by the writer ....and not in some context that will inject uneasiness or conjecture in the minds of the players. A writer hearing the root note or mode of a chord in accompanyment's lowest note(s) goes a long way in knowing what root tone a chord is probably best defined upon.
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John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

The first chord appeared to me to be either a C9th or an Ami11. But with the D note in the bass, I wasn't sure which was correct. The second chord, D13 has an A in the bass, but the A doesn't sound like the root, but more as a movement in the bass towards the third chord,the resolution to Gmaj7. The melody is played on the first string in these three chords. D-tuning.
1-D--12---9----4
2-A--10---9----5
3-F#-10---10---5
4-D--10---10---5
5-A--X----O----5
6-D--O----X----5

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

John,
As a collection of notes without context, it could be many things.
But, as the second of two pickup notes in "Misty" in the key of G, it's D13th, no question. (As Stuart has suggested)
When the weather warms up and you pull out your steel again, try this.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Thanks John! I surely will! But,,,, this music may also help me right now with the bottleneck version.
Edited to add: Would you have the tab for the bridge also? I've got the verses, but am struggling with the bridge!

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

Hi John,

I think I have the bridge tabbed out somewhere, I'll have a look through my computer for it. That tab was actually written several years ago. I had to dredge it up from an old thread about uses for the 9th string.
You may notice that the second chord in the tab is your 13th chord, with the added flavour of a b9 thrown in.

-John

basilh · From: United Kingdom

A suggestion for what it's worth: Learn the lyrics, then you may end up playing the correct melody, as opposed to an approximation.
Especially with the line "And I feel like I'm clinging to a cloud" and those at the same place in each verse

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

Basil,
You are, of course, correct. I hadn't noticed the liberties I had taken with the original melodic line. .... being more concerned with the harmonic movement. I'll make an adjustment. It wasn't really ignorance, just apathy.
Thanks,
-John

basilh · From: United Kingdom

John, if you feel that your own interpretation is the way you want it, then DON'T let me influence you.

All I can say is that it's been proven that the AVERAGE listener sings the song subconsciously and the lyrics have probably embedded themselves subliminally. If the notes don't gel with the lyrics the listener can be made to feel uncomfortable with the tune without knowing why, and they "Switch Off" you've lost their attention and won't get it back easily.

I personally think that the correct number of notes representing the syllables of the lyric are essential for at least the first time 'round with the melody, after that is when the improvisation USUALLY starts.
At least that's the norm in the "Jazz" world.

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

Basil, that's cool. You're right. Edited to add those missing notes... which reflects the original melody that Erroll Garner played, which, as you know, was a beloved melody for some time before anyone wrote lyrics to it.
In this house, where there are no Johnny Mathis records, but scores of Garner albums, the lyrical version <i> is </i>a non-original interpretation. It might be noted that the lyrics later written did not in fact conform strictly to what Garner played. They did however match the phrase you've mentioned above, so I changed it. Very Happy

I'm glad they didn't try to write lyrics for the flurry of 32nd notes Garner played before or after the bridge.

Now, a question: Someone has requested tab for the bridge. My first reaction would be to treat it as Garner did. The problem would be, for practical purposes, the fact that 75% of people I've heard play it just gut the second 8 bars of the bridge and jam a II chord in there instead of the original b5m7b5 - VII chords. I think even the famous Ray Stevens recording did this. So, which way ? I would really rather everyone played it the way it was written too, but they don't. In an attempt to convey something the correct way, are you showing the person something useless in a bandstand situation ? Hmm.

-John

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Basilh, I abdo-lutely agree! The problem with doing something like this on bottleneck is that compromises have to be made. Bottleneck is so limited as far as chord voicings, and also the problem of:"Just how fast can you move before it falls apart?" I'm having a very difficult time with the bridge. The style I'm playing requires that I play a bass note with my thumb, on both hands! Playing the melody, with chord accompaniment and bass note are proving to be quite difficult in the bridge.
However, I am still very happy about discovering chord forms that I've never heard before in bottleneck playing.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

John, twas me who requested the tab to the bridge. As in my above post to Basilh, on bottleneck, the limitations are rather severe, although I've discovered some new chord forms that I've never heard another bottlenecker play. But, I have to make compromises. It's just the nature of that playing style. I don't wanna, but I gotta!

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