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Topic: Why Isn't Pedal Steel More Popular? |
Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 3:19 pm |
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Imagine being introduced to the piano. "Oh, by the way," says your teacher, "there's no standard tuning. Everyone has their own ideas. And you have to turn the piano upside-down to set the copedant."
Or, think of going along to a typing school.
"Learn the position of the keys by heart, because touch typing demands that you know where the letters are without looking at the keys. Oh, and by the way, thoese five foot pedals move some of the rows of keys to the left and some to the right, and those knee levers move some of the columns up and down. I'm not going to be able to tell you which does which, because different typists have different ideas about it...."
"You don't know how to adjust the pedals and knee levers? Well, in time you will figure it out, or you could take your postgraduate degree in Engineering, which is probably easier.?"
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Jeff Garden
From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 3:39 pm
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| I guess you have to be the type of person that can deal with instruction that starts out with something like "the first rule is, there are no rules!" The only other instrument I can think of with a number of tuning/setup variations is the autoharp. I used to go to a club in Mobile AL where the owner played steel in the house band. I was fascinated with it and wanted him to teach me everything about it. I finally got my courage up to ask one nite and was crushed when he told me "I'd be happy to but my tuning and setup is so different from everybody else's that I don't think I'd be helping you out." Luckily I soon discovered Jeff Newman and had at least one person's perspective of a reasonably standardized approach. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 3:47 pm
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I wanted to play pedal steel since I was a young man because I was fascinated by the sound. Only now I'm old do I have the time to pursue the dream, and I'm loving it. Also, as we get on in years we need something to keep the brain sharp, and as Alan says, the PSG is just the thing.
When I slide up the neck from one inversion to the next I think "This is the only instrument on the planet that can do this - to squeeze and stretch the intervals as it moves - plastic chords." Then I think of the theory that statistically, there must be innumerable other planets in the universe similar to our own. But do they have PSGs? When aliens start joining the forum then we'll know....although ET already pops up a fair bit, I suppose.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 4:04 pm
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My first steel was a Carter Starter, which came with The DVD, and that DVD *works*. The Carter has no mechanism to mess with speak of ( other than having to do things to make the knee levers work properly).
I think I was recording parts within a week. I know I took a commission for a part within a few months ( I used to do a "will record guitar parts for a modest fee" thing ).
I still maintain that for all its weaknesses, the tradeoffs on a Starter were well chosen. The main thing is that it sounds good. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 5:11 pm
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After 45 years, I'm not so sure I even want to try and learn this instrument.  
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 6:04 pm
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| Quote: |
| Why Isn't Pedal Steel More Popular? |
Well, it could be because it has a few detriments, being that it's considered...complex, intimidating, heavy, expensive, whiny, non-standardzized, hard to tune, almost impossible to master, requires many accessories, and is hopelessly linked with older country music.
But on the plus side...it can make some neat sounds.  |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 6:06 pm
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| It's not being used as much as it was when I got attracted to it, circa 1968. There were two mainstays that used it when I heard it first. Country music was obviously using it heavily and country rock was experimenting with it. Country rock was my favorite back then. I literally haited country music... couldn't stand it, but, I eventually leaned over to it about 1975. I played everywhere from then on, doing country music. The Urban Cowboy trend really helped speed it along tremendously. We all worked! The music supported our love for the steel. The 90's, for me, seemed to slow down a bit and the music was changing..... more show, more guitar solos, less steel. Even though there were some holdouts, who, kept the steel in their music, the pop/rock side was flourishing more and more. Today's country music is about half and half, but, to me, the steel isn't high in the mix anymore. I guess it's a generational thing. Younger execs running the show with younger ideas. I'm not saying it's a national thing, but, in most metro areas country music is lacking as is the steel. It's becoming a cloistered instrument again. However, there are places where the steel prevails, but, it's not as popular anymore. I know that there are members here, who, have endeavored to perform classical music and jazz and some pop, but, I don't think it'll ever become as popular as it was before. Who knows, maybe it'll turn around again. I certainly hope so because I plan on playing it until I can't anymore. We should all try an indoctrinate younger enthusiasts to learn to play in order to keep the lifeblood flowing. |
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Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 6:10 pm
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Alan
your right , our beloved instrument needs standardizing
it would make learning it at least somewhat understandable
not to mention being able to sit at another players guitar
and just start playing with out worrying about making a total fool out of yourself
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
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Tom Sosbe
From:
Rushville,In
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 7:22 pm
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| too many experts telling people how many pedals and knee levers one MUST have |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 7:44 pm
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the pedal steel is quite popular on this forum.
it doesn't 'need' to be anything that it isn't already. i don't care if it survives or not, but i imagine it will. |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 8:10 pm
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I think the old saying about guitar "easiest to learn, hardest to master" applies to the pedal steel also
The Carter Starter video with Joe Wright had me making "the sound" in about 5 minutes. I haven't mastered the instrument (by a long shot - and I never will), but I continue to get better at making "the sound"
It looks more intimidating than it is, which I think is one of the main impediments to its greater uptake. With the availability of good quality learner steels, I don't think the expense is an issue
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 8:17 pm
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I believe the complexity and strangeness of the instrument (mechanically) was one of the very things that first interested me. And I bet I'm not the only one.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Daniel McKee
From:
Corinth Mississippi
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 8:39 pm
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| Every time someone sees me playing or I tell them I play pedal steel I get usually one of two responses, one being "I've always loved to hear the pedal steel" and the other being "I've always wanted to play steel guitar". I think it catches the interest of many but the complexity of it, possible lack of availability and cost seems to turn a lot of people away. To me it seems to be quite well known at least where I am (North Mississippi) just not many buying one and learning how to play it. |
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Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 9:51 pm
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| Tom Sosbe wrote: |
| too many experts telling people how many pedals and knee levers one MUST have |
amen brother !!
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 29 Feb 2016 10:24 pm
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We are in a sense competing with guitar and keyboard players. A skillful guitar player can coax an enormous range of sounds out of an electric guitar. And the range of a good keyboard player is probably even larger. Now think about how many different good sounds you can get out of your pedal steel. There's no comparison.
Pedal steel is a wonderful instrument, and I enjoy playing it, but we will never be as important to the overall sound of most bands as those other guys.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 1 Mar 2016 1:39 am
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I am wondering why many of us look at the Pedal Steel and the advanced configurations as overkill. RE: Reading a couple of comments stating we should standardize and forget those extra things , called knee levers or pedals which add pulls.
Imagine telling Joe Pass, George Benson , Pat Methany etc.. not to play those extended chords and stick with a standard group of chords or phrases for every song .
Or Buddy...
Well, I can't...
IF someone doesn't know the value of adding an extra pull to a Pedal Steel, thats not the fault of the Instrument. So Don't add it. But don't tell others that they are overkill either.
Thats like saying I only need 3 fingers to play guitar. forget the pinky, it's useless...
It's all overkill and useless until you hear something and then turn your head and say...
"Wow, What was that" ?
Then it's no longer useless or overkill.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ben Edmonds
From:
Greenfield, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2016 4:14 am
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I hold the belief, and I'm sure it's not popular, that many pedal steel guitar players LIKE to pretend it is some kind of wizardry and talk about it as such. For anyone with a basic understanding of music they will soon find out how logical the steel is set up and beyond the normal physical learning curve of any instrument it is just an instrument. In my mind the six string guitar is harder to mentally comprehend.
Ok so I am saying this because I feel it is intimidating for a beginner all by themselves without steel players talking about it as it is some mystery which it is not. Great music is played from great musicians no matter what.
I think the biggest hurdle is price which is coming down so if a kid really wants it then it is available and you don't need a phd to play it though some may lead you to believe that
In NO way am I meaning this as putting anyone down I'm just stating my opinion hopping that maybe if someone who is considering playing is not scared off. It's just an instrument! |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 1 Mar 2016 4:49 am
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| Tom Sosbe wrote: |
| too many experts telling people how many pedals and knee levers one MUST have |
Bingo! We have a winner. Add the fact that most owners don't practice enough to be players and you have a weird configuration of a mechanics and "experts..."
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 1 Mar 2016 5:00 am
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I don't recall any of the so called experts telling anyone how many bells and whistles they must have.
recommendations ? yep..absolutely. Me included.
Seeing MOST TAB instruction is written ( standardized) with a 3 + 4 configuration for the E9th...maybe, just maybe thats why those nasty experts are recommending a 3+4 setup .
But, I could be wrong 
Oh and stop asking the experts what the X lever is for and how to use it... and the 2nd string drop as well...
Stop it Gumby !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 1 Mar 2016 5:11 am
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Tony, I hope you are playing a 14-string keyless guitar. Otherwise you are a hopeless luddite. And you better be playing a Blimpville Mesopatato 45/35 amp with a Ziegler X3 speaker and Swirelville cables, otherwise you are just wasting my time! ;- )
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 1 Mar 2016 5:57 am
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Donny outlined the real reasons why pedal steel is, and pretty much always has been, a niche instrument that most people don't learn. It takes a fair amount of dedication and time to even get to the point where you don't completely suck. It's also heavy, expensive, and is stereotyped far more than most instruments. Not a recipe for mass acceptance. I don't consider this a problem. Some people get into it, some don't - c'est la vie.
As far as the instrument needing to be 'standardized' - well, for the most part, it already is standardized. Most players have some sort of E9 tuning with A, B, C pedals and levers for E=>F, E=>Eb, and 2nd string D#=>D (and perhaps =>C#) on string 2 and D=>C# on string 9 as a core. What varies is:
1. Exactly where those pedals and levers are located;
2. Additional changes that most serious players ultimately put on via additional pedals and levers;
3. Some players also have a separate C6 neck or a 12-string E9/B6 universal setup, which is basically the same, and also reasonably standardized.
Far from being limiting, the ability to put standard changes in different places and the ability to add additional changes makes the instrument easier, not more difficult, to learn and play because it accommodates different ergonomics and different musical ideas more easily. You're looking at this entirely wrong, IMO.
Now, a relatively small subset of players significantly depart from the standardized setup and do their own thing. Again, this flexibility doesn't limit anything at all - in fact it opens up the instrument to more people and different styles. This is analogous to some guitar players using different tunings for guitar. Again, this only opens up possibilities - it doesn't limit anybody who wants to play using standard tuning.
Look - if you want a totally 'standardized' Emmons setup: A, B, C pedals in left-to-right order, your E=>F lever on LKL, E=>Eb lever on LKR, and 2nd/9th string changes on, let's say, RKR - great. You'll have no problem finding lots of guitars, instruction, and other people with that setup. But you are wasting your time if you insist that everybody should do that. And none of this has anything to do with why the instrument is not massively popular. That idea is a total red herring and feels like fish bait to me. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Mar 2016 6:13 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
When I slide up the neck from one inversion to the next I think "This is the only instrument on the planet that can do this - to squeeze and stretch the intervals as it moves - plastic chords." |
Not exactly, the technique is also used on violin, viola, and cello, although to a lesser extent.  |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 1 Mar 2016 6:13 am
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| Tom Quinn wrote: |
| Tony, I hope you are playing a 14-string keyless guitar. Otherwise you are a hopeless luddite. And you better be playing a Blimpville Mesopatato 45/35 amp with a Ziegler X3 speaker and Swirelville cables, otherwise you are just wasting my time! ;- ) |
Thank god I am and do...!
But sadly, I do have the 2nd version of the X3 Speaker which is now actually re-named the "extended lower frequency air suspension velocity producer with enhanced hi octave tone equalization " model.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 1 Mar 2016 6:24 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 1 Mar 2016 6:18 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Ian Rae wrote: |
When I slide up the neck from one inversion to the next I think "This is the only instrument on the planet that can do this - to squeeze and stretch the intervals as it moves - plastic chords." |
Not exactly, the technique is also used on violin, viola, and cello, although to a lesser extent. |
Pro Tools calls it Elastic Audio
I think that other fretless instruments are similar in concept but none of them can actually change the tuning ( peds and knees) while gliss-fully sliding around and then go back to the natural tuning all within the same measure ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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