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Topic: Lap Guitar (finding a happy medium between steel and guitar) |
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 27 May 2016 5:36 am |
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I've played guitar--or should say I played guitar--for probably 45 years or so, and had gotten to a pretty fair level of accomplishment at a relatively early age. Then something happening to me around 25 years ago: I started getting into slide and emulating steel guitar sounds on the guitar. The weird thing is I gravitated towards the Hawaiian sounds and more traditional nonpedal sounds.
Fast forward a bunch of years later and I decided that I would scale back the guitar playing (which literally cost me a ton of jobs and money) and just focus on the steel stuff. As I got better at playing steel, I tried to reclaim some of my playing styles and ideas from my guitar playing days. Sometimes I can listen back to things I've played on steel and I realize that some may not be able to tell right away that it's not a fretted guitar. But there are things I can do with the bar that elevate the level of expression, and for me that is really what is important. Perfectly timed slides, vibrato, all that stuff, makes up for the thing you can't do on the steel.
In a sense, I have sort of avoided utilizing more traditional steel sounds and focused more on creating new types of lines and sounds. It's been a little difficult, but extremely satisfying. The downside is that not many people seem to be into that style of playing and there is not a lot of, or really any, work available for that type of player.
The only logical thing to do at this point is to roll my own, which I am doing. I was once told by a very wise man that the only thing that really makes sense is to create your own music, if you have that ability and the inclination.
If you are going through any of the above scenarios, let's hear your experiences and what you have to say.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 27 May 2016 5:56 am
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Just to elaborate a bit more, if I didn't discover that it was possible to play in a guitaristic way, I probably would have never made the decision to focus solely on playing steel. But once I delved into C6 tuning and starting making little discoveries, then I decided it was definitely worth the time and effort to try and find the happy middle ground between them both.
Obviously, one of the biggest sacrifices is in chordal work, but in some ways there was a new level of discovery regarding using very simple triads and dyads to suggest or represent harmonies.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 27 May 2016 6:36 am
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Here Here Mike.
I approach Lap Steel Guitar capability like a guitar, that was my background too. i just have to get the knowledge and experience on the steel.
As for paying Gigs.
I am realising that you have to like playing what other people want to keep working.
I have realised as of about 2 weeks ago that before any upcoming gig rip through the Ionian and Pentatonic Minor scale and the gigs will be there still.
Sad but true. 
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Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 27 May 2016 6:41 am
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| Quote: |
| Obviously, one of the biggest sacrifices is in chordal work, but in some ways there was a new level of discovery regarding using very simple triads and dyads to suggest or represent harmonies. |
I cannot commend Bill Leavitt for his tuning enough. I happened to be drawn into it after tons of experimentation with my own. I only realised it once I started learning inversions and practicing that after I changed my tuning.
I thought my idea was original until I looked closely at the intervals Then I said Eureka I have the Leavitt tuning in my tuning. Chords galore.
Mike I can definitely say You inspire on C6 I wonder what you truly would be capable of on the Leavitt tuning.
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Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 27 May 2016 6:51 am
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| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
Mike I can definitely say You inspire on C6 I wonder what you truly would be capable of on the Leavitt tuning.
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Thanks. I see myself in a lot of ways as a problem solver. Where there is a roadblock, I like to find ways around it. In harmony, this is especially fulfilling.
The other thing is, I just don't really like steel guitar very much for chords. I'm into a more minimal approach. Think Paul Motian Trio with Bill Frisell and no bass.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 27 May 2016 8:37 am
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I find I just enjoy playing the steel so much more that guitar gets put on the back burner. For the most part I don't try to make the steel sound like a regular guitar... but I do really love instrumental rock and surf music and I've been having fun trying to get those staccato muted sounds out of the steel. I'm also an effects pedal nut so I like experimenting with those as well.
In retrospect, I was always trying to get the guitar to sound like a steel. I didn't even realize it at the time. When I finally found lap steel it felt like this is what I should have been doing all along.
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"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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Former Member
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Posted 27 May 2016 8:46 am
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Finding that happy medium has not been easy for me...
Life gets in the way, work, kid, wife, chores etc..
The never ending distracting inner conversation with myself..
I heard this neurosurgeon on the radio the other night talking about the success he's had. He attributed it to focusing that inner conversation inside himself to become "hyper-focused" towards his goal. Something like meditation. It's a fight to keep my mind from wandering.
I too, played guitar most my life. Not to any great degree. Self taught and drawn towards the drifter styles,(Ramblin Jack, Guthrie, early Dylan, Bruce Phillips, any Hobo). --Spent a couple of decades busking, getting my kicks..
After a life of labor, my hands started giving out, became interested in slide and Hawaiian steel. Pretty much what I hear in my head for steel guitar is Wes, Martino, playing jazz with lap instead of reg. guitar.
I personally don't give a shit about gigs or even playing out, there's just something in my head I'd like to learn how to play.
It's been hard to select a tuning and just stick to it. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 27 May 2016 8:13 pm Re: Lap Guitar (finding a happy medium between steel and gui
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
The only logical thing to do at this point is to roll my own, which I am doing. I was once told by a very wise man that the only thing that really makes sense is to create your own music, if you have that ability and the inclination.
If you are going through any of the above scenarios, let's hear your experiences and what you have to say. |
My story is related to pedal steel rather than lap but I think the basic experience I'm having applies to both worlds 
I've been playing electric guitar since '83 and have been bitten by the pedal steel bug a few times. Went out and bought 3 beautiful 10 string, 3 pedal, 4 knee, E9's over the years with the intention of learning other peoples' licks and failed at each turn. After many years since my last try, I decided on a completely different approach and bought an old 8 string Fender 400 about 3 months ago. Spent many weeks developing my own tuning and pedal setup based on optimizing chords, not on learning anyone else's licks.
Things are coming along incredibly better than any of my former attempts. I feel I've learned and accomplished more in 3 months struggling with my own tuning than in the couple years or so I tried to fit into the accepted country E9 world. While it's often lonely out there with my own tuning and no books or youtube vids to guide me...it's also incredibly rewarding when I figure something out myself.
So "rolling my own" is working much better for me than trying to do the square peg in a round hole approach I tried multiple times before...best of luck in your journey as well
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 28 May 2016 6:22 am
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| i made a living all my life playing guitar and bass. i always loved the steel guitar but just didnt have the time to tinker with it, which i firmly believe that if you do not start out young on it....you are destined to only tinker with it because what you need to really play it great takes years of work. so thats what i did...i just tinkered. the music wasnt a problem...the mechanics was. my bud tommy dodd here in atlanta would come play a session or a gig and i would hear him play and my interest in learning would fire back up. i would get a pedal guitar...tinker with it for a while. not touch it for months and forget all i had worked on and then sell it. so i just decided the pedal guitar was not going to work. then i started tinkering with the lap steel and found that it was a lot of fun and even a bigger challenge since you have not pitch change on it via pedals but i tinkered away at that and had some fun doing it. i probably havent played lap steel in a year or so, but when i do, its not to hard to get the feel of the bar and tinker around for some notes. via the forum i learned about the leavitt tuning and since i really didnt know any tuning it worked out nice to figure some things out on it. i really dont know the tuning that intricately, i just hunt and peck. |
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Steve Cunningham
From:
Atlanta, GA
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Posted 28 May 2016 8:35 am
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I've been told by several musician friends that my guitar playing sounds a lot like my steel playing, and vice versa...each one has definitely influenced the other over the years.
Professionally, 70% of gigs I do don't require lap steel...but I bring one 95% of the time, and play it where I want to (I was going to say where it's appropriate, but that's rarely the case  ) When I play variety band gigs, I often play steel on the modern dance tunes, where there's no guitar...either grabbing some synth lines, or just grooving...usually end up soloing too. I honestly don't think most listeners know, or care, that I'm playing a different instrument...it either sounds good, or it doesn't.
I've been doing a bunch of gigs that are just upright bass, nylon-string guitar, and vocals, jazz-type stuff...I always end up playing several tunes on steel, and folks dig it.
I used to make a big point of telling a bandleader "Hey, I'm bringing my lap steel, is that cool?" Now I just bring it, and play it where I think it might sound good...being an E6 player, it's really helped me avoid the "Hawaiian" sound when I don't want it.
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Zoom/Skype/Facetime lessons available http://www.atlanta-guitar-lessons.com
YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/user/SingingStringsMusic?feature=mhee |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 28 May 2016 11:04 am
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I used to play bass and standard guitar. Then went to Lap C6, the Pedal E9. Now I'm back to lap E7, and dobro. I find myself playing a lot more single note leads instead of just comping. Dobro has been a challenge, and I'm wondering if I shouldn't make it E7 instead of open G.
Oh, this mistress called steel guitar...
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Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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David Knutson
From:
Cowichan Valley, Canada
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Posted 28 May 2016 1:31 pm
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Great thread, Mike.
I think I come from a bit of a unique history in that I have primarily been a "front man-singer-rhythm guitarist" in "my own" groups, as well as a side-player on Dobro or lap steel in other groups. When I play guitar I'm thinking chord, rhythm, and the natural percussion of the instrument (usually when I am also singing). When I'm playing steel it's more about melody and harmonies, so in a sense I'm still singing - just not with my mouth.
More recently I am adapting my role in the group I "lead" to be "front man-singer-steel player" on a third to half of our song list. The challenges I find there are in keeping my steel fills nice and smooth while singing, and providing good, guitar-like rhythm when the guitarist is taking a solo (just three of us). But ya gotta love a good challenge.
And . . . in defence of Ionian and Pentatonic Minor . . . there's a ton of great great music out there that doesn't diverge much from those scales. Just sayin
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David K |
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Frank Agliata
From:
Jersey Shore, USA
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Posted 28 May 2016 7:35 pm
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This thing called the steel is an interesting little beast. You can make it scream like a demon or sing like an angel. In a band setting, it will slice through the mix like the veritable hot knife through butter. Laying bare for all to hear the clams, string noise and faulty blocking. But it is very addicting. After fifty years of guitar and bass, in all genres of music, I'm late to this party but I can't stop thinking about it and tinkering with it. All the different tunings to experiment with and music theory to think about.
It's fun, very expressive and very challenging as well. 
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GFI Expo X1, Melbert 8, Rukavina 6
always learning |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 29 May 2016 6:22 am
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| But there are things I can do with the bar that elevate the level of expression, and for me that is really what is important. |
Me too Mike. 
Find your own way. Learn from the past how to invent the future. 
Sometimes the lightbulb shines, sometimes it don't.
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Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 29 May 2016 9:03 am
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Sunday can be a very lonely day when you have no family or friends. Someone loaned me a J-200 copy made by Epiphone. I had a lot of fun bashing out some old Who songs on it! I don't play lap, only pedal steel, but the standard guitar and the sixties songs are my first love.
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Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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