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Topic: Vintage vs new amps |
Clinton Zimmerman
From:
Memphis,Mo
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Posted 2 May 2016 6:58 pm |
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| Just curious guys would like some opinions on this subject. Some guys are playing through the old vintage amps peavey and fenders, ect, while others are using the steelaire,carvin bass heads and maybe some other stuff. Is there a real difference in how they sound? |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 May 2016 12:58 am
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probably not, personal taste is probably the answer.
Those of us who still use PV N400's or Sessions are probably thinking, why change? Unless of course weight is a factor.
Those of us that are using Fender tube amps, same thing. Why change? Seeing that probably every boutique amp on the planet came from one of the early Fender designs , why not just stick with an old 50 watt Fender amp or Twin/Showman ? Of course weight and maintenance also comes into play.
The new era amps are excellent, weight wise and reliability. Perhaps a good thing got better for many !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ed Boyd
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 3 May 2016 12:56 pm
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I play vintage because the new amps I bought years ago got old. Back when I bought my 65 Twin it was not called vintage, just called used. 
The last amp I bought was a new Boogie I picked up in 91 or 92. I just don't replace things as long as they work but something lighter would be really nice. |
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Clinton Zimmerman
From:
Memphis,Mo
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Posted 3 May 2016 1:36 pm
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| Something lighter would be great, and I like the thought of a small amp head with a separate speaker cabinet and I believe there are some good choices out there from what I found doing a forum search.,like a bass amp or quilter tone block. |
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Mike Archer
From:
church hill tn
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Posted 3 May 2016 3:46 pm quilter
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I tell you I played through a friends quilter
amp last sunday and was blown away by the sound
31 pounds its way outta my budget but man what a great amp!
mike
_________________
Mullen g2 d-10
Quilter 112
Tele/ fender deluxe |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 3 May 2016 5:05 pm
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The difference between amps is actually mostly pretty subtle
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 4 May 2016 7:21 am
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If I see a good deal on a vintage Fender or Peavey amp, I can't resist.
And you talk about heavy! Not too long ago I picked up a Fender Super Six amp. For the uneducated, that's basically a Fender Twin Reverb head with 6 speakers in the cabinet. I believe the beast weights 125 lbs. but what a sound!
Every 6 string player that has tried it wants to buy it.  |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 4 May 2016 7:27 am
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| Quote: |
| The difference between amps is actually mostly pretty subtle |
| Quote: |
| If I see a good deal on a vintage Fender or Peavey amp, I can't resist. |
Those are two profound statements!
I just bought this Standel, and it is super cool and sounds great! This pic does not show what great condition this 1965-ish amp is!
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 5 May 2016 6:10 am Re: quilter
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| Mike Archer wrote: |
I tell you I played through a friends quilter amp last sunday and was blown away by the sound ....31 pounds.... man what a great amp!
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I feel the same way. My new Quilter sounds wonderful.
My 1976 all tube Music Man 212-HD (before they changed the amp to half tube, half solid state) also sounds wonderful. But it weighs 70 pounds.
Guess which one I take to gigs.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 6 May 2016 4:41 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| The difference between amps is actually mostly pretty subtle |
I totally agree Lane |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 6 May 2016 5:41 am
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| when fender reissued the tweed bassman, i bought the first one that came in atlanta. i was working on a friends original 59 tweed bassman. i set them both on my workbench side by side. i was shocked how much better the old model sounded. i immediately got rid of the new one. |
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Clinton Zimmerman
From:
Memphis,Mo
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Posted 6 May 2016 3:35 pm
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| Thinking of going to a mb200 or 500 and a 12 or 15 cab,would this also work for telecaster or should I still hang onto one of my Peavy or fender amps? |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Hermitage, TN
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Posted 6 May 2016 6:43 pm
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I've settled into using the older stuff. 60's Standel for steel, and a blackface Vibrolux for guitar (thanks Bill Hatcher).
For whatever reason, the amps I have that were made in the 60's have a more forgiving high end than stuff from the 70's and after. Yes it's subtle, but a subtle difference can make you happy or unhappy with the sound while playing. |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 7 May 2016 9:51 pm
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"The difference between amps is actually mostly pretty subtle"
Hmmmm......Lane, that's a strange statement from one who once wrote that a great amp with a mediocre guitar will make you sound much better than a great guitar with a mediocre amp. Isn't it?
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 May 2016 11:01 pm
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Try one of these! EF86 to handle the pickup power. Twin KT88s. Ultra-linear transformers. Quite a different design/ I love mine!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 8 May 2016 4:01 am
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| Steven Paris wrote: |
"The difference between amps is actually mostly pretty subtle"
Hmmmm......Lane, that's a strange statement from one who once wrote that a great amp with a mediocre guitar will make you sound much better than a great guitar with a mediocre amp. Isn't it? |
Nobody here is comparing to mediocre amps. The steel amps that I've said that I wouldn't own if they were given to me (N400, N112 and damn sure the S2000) are still good steel amps, there are just aspects that make it hard for me to sound like me.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 8 May 2016 10:09 am
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| I think a lot of the subtle differences in tone are in a lot of cases , the old amp circuit is being copied with minor tweaks , and produced in a new amp !!...How many new amps copied the schematics from the older Fender amps ? ....The older amps have that "broken in " feel to them ....They're like an old pair of shoes ....You can get along fine with a new pair that is the same style and color as the old pair , but the old pair fit you just right, and feel better ..... A lot of the new solid state amps are mass produced, and use cheaper components while they try to simulate the old tones of yesterday .... They can come close , but they are not the real deal to me ...You have to go to a reputable company that uses high end components , and point to point wiring if you want anything as good as the amps of yesterday ....and you will pay for it too !!....YMMV .....Jim |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 11 May 2016 3:51 pm
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I don't care for circuit board tube amps; I have had a couple & they sounded like crap.
For me, 70s Fenders & chrome side-strip PVs are what I like.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 12 May 2016 10:01 am
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So what is it EXACTLY, technically, that makes point-to-point wiring sound better to most musicians than PCBs?? Is it something measureable? Is it just that p-p amps are old while PCB amps are newer?
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 12 May 2016 10:06 am
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Well, they're usually easier to work on. When my tech souped up my Delta Blues, it was a pita! I'd never heard him swear before!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 12 May 2016 11:03 am
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| Point to Point wiring makes it MUCH easier to not only work on , but you can change the values and the type of components in the amp for the best sound possible ... If you have a PC board amp, and a simple resistor goes bad in it you have to hack the board up just to TRY and change a resistor or any other part of the amp ... With point to point , you just clip the wires, take out the old resistor , and put in a new one ....Or just unsolder the old and put in the new .... Once a PC board is designed , it can get sent out and mass produced , and bringing many more $$$ to the builder who is "Mass" producing them ....Point to Point takes more time , and the builder has to charge more to make more ... Some builders do it for the labor of love , and others are just plain businessmen .... I have expensive amps both PC and Point to Point , and I have to say that for the most part , my point to point amps sound better to my ears ... Find someone with a high end Solid State Stereo setup and listen to it ....Then go to someone sho still has a high end tube point to point setup and tell me the difference in what you hear !!...YOu want point to point wiring in a great sounding tube amp , you're gonna pay for it .... or you can sound like everyone else who is saving money and buying the average gear that's on the market today ... Stop and think ....Why do the old Fender amps that everyone wants , happen to be OLD, especially with all the modern tachnology ? ....The hurrier we go , the behinder we get !!....Jim |
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Bruce Derr
From:
Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 13 May 2016 2:30 pm
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I love old tube amps, but I don't have a problem with printed circuit boards per se. Circuit boards get a bad rap. It's true that amps built with PCBs are sometimes more of a pain to disassemble, and some of them are prone to failures from bad connections and the like, but those problems are often the result of design compromises. Printed circuit board amps can be reliable when done correctly.
Amps with printed circuit boards typically have jacks and pots soldered to the board, which means for certain repairs all of the knobs and bushing nuts must be removed just to get the board out of the chassis. But once it's accessible, working on the board itself is no big deal. As long as a tech has the right training, experience and tools, he/she can change a part on a circuit board at least as fast as on a point-to-point amp, and you probably wouldn't even be able to spot the repair. If a tech hacks up a circuit board when changing a component, it's the tech's fault, not the board's.
There's nothing inherently bad-sounding about circuit boards. They are subject to problems caused by poor layout, like parasitic capacitance and noise, but bad layout can and does happen with other wiring methods too, including point-to-point, turret board, etc. The advantage of a printed circuit board (aside from lower cost) is consistency. If you get the design right, you produce consistently good amps, and v/v.
I believe that if a new amp sounds different than an old one, and they use the same circuit (like Deluxe Reverb original and reissue), it's usually caused by other differences such as signal capacitors, speaker, etc. |
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Mike Poholsky
From:
Kansas, USA
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Posted 13 May 2016 3:36 pm
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I own a 64 Fender Twin and a newer Fender Steel King (solid state). I play both on gigs and at home. I also use a Steel Guitar Black Box. No matter how I EQ the Steel King, the highs dont come close to the high end sparkle I get with my Twin.
There is something that seems to go on between tubes and high end frequecies. It may also be true for newer tube amps, I havent played many.
_________________
Zumsteel 12 Universal
SGBB
ShoBud VP
'64 Fender Twin Reverb/Fox Rehab
Fender Steel King w/BW 1501-4
FX to Taste |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 13 May 2016 3:52 pm
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Dr.Z's new Surgical Steel amp is aimed at newer steel players who use pedals, etc.. The EF86 pre amp tube is about two or three times the gain of a 12AX7. It can handle the high power of steel pups, plus the addition of pedals, So can his buffered loop. The EF86 can feed the KT88s what they need. Stunning new amp design! I love mine!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 14 May 2016 1:21 pm
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Sometimes point-to-point wiring AIN'T so good!
Note the resistors soldered to the capacitor case and the numerous random attachments to the chassis. Certainly not "star grounding" practice!!
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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