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Topic: Left (bar) hand numbness |
Joe Ribaudo
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 7 May 2016 10:55 am |
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I'm fairly new to PSG and have been having a problem with my left hand going numb every so often and suspect (hope?) it's due to bad posture. I'm still getting over golfer's elbow so not sure if that's related, but somewhere between 20-40 minutes into practicing, I have to stop and shake it out to get the feeling back. Thinking this isn't normal... any suggestions?
_________________
Sho~Bud Super Pro, Fender Concert, NV400, Orange, (LP's, Tele's, Gretsch, Burns, etc...) |
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James Kerr
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 7 May 2016 11:23 am
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You might be too afraid of dropping the Bar, gripping too tight, let it slop about between your fingers a bit, just a little, it won't go anywhere.
James. |
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Rex Mayfield
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 7 May 2016 4:19 pm left hand numbness
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| Joe, I'm kind of a newby myself (3 years), but have had the very same symptoms since I took up psg. Have you considered carpal tunnel problems? I had the procedure almost a month ago. It may not be the same for everyone, but I was playing again in 3 or 4 days after the procedure, and I have YET to experience the numbness since. Just saying,, it apparently worked wonders for me. Good luck! Rex |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 8 May 2016 3:39 am
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Amazingly, tension in the hand starts in the shoulder.
Muscles recruit to do the job down to the wrist and fingers.
Allowing the shoulder to drop will relax the muscle groups; consider the relief on the neck that comes from letting the arm seek gravity.
The golfer's elbow comes from the same source.
James has a good assessment. You might say, let of the bar, it's not going anywhere. Relax. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 8 May 2016 4:15 am
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it's not uncommon..
after doing this for several decades on gigs, I have learned to put the bar DOWN between songs, even if it's only for 30 seconds.
TRUE story right here:
The first time I saw John Hughey play at a local show I noticed he was putting the bar down during Guitar or Piano solos. I thought, wow that must be to prevent him from overplaying !
So I asked him later on why he did it, I prefaced it with, does it prevent you from overplaying ?
He laughed and said..yeah that too but I mostly do it because my hand is tired and I'm taking advantage of the non play time !
Thats wisdom right there Batman...two birds one stone !
Think about it, we are griping an odd ball metal object in our left hand with some weight for who knows how long continuously, eventually our left hand says.."hey dude give me a break" !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Joe Ribaudo
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 9 May 2016 7:51 am
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Re James' and Charlie's suggestions... I realized this mostly happens when I'm practicing palm blocking and everything tightens up (still waiting for that Ah-Ha moment when my right hand finally gets it) also have a low 2 string where buzz is mainly noticeable at lower frets. So a combination of practicing further up the neck where I don't have to press so hard and loosening my grip on the bar has made a big difference. Thanks! I'm online all day as tech support and no signs of carpel tunnel evident so unless there are variations that affect different muscle groups I hope I can dodge that bullet.
_________________
Sho~Bud Super Pro, Fender Concert, NV400, Orange, (LP's, Tele's, Gretsch, Burns, etc...) |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 9 May 2016 4:05 pm
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As someone who's dealt with tendinitis and ulnar neuropathy (carpal tunnel of the elbow) since the early 90's, I can tell you that shaking out your arm/hand is a great thing to do...even if you're not feeling the numbness! The name of the game in preventing repetitive strain injury is blood circulation and shaking out is the best way to keep things flowing.
Gripping that bar or gripping at strings for hours without some kind of muscle break is a recipe for injury regardless of our age. I shake both my arms/hands out well before even beginning to play...also a quick shake/stretch between songs and again after ending a practice session are all great ideas. If I'm feeling soreness after a practice session I grab an ice cube or ice pack and rub/wrap the sore area and take a nice arm break...besides, it feels great on a hot day 
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 10 May 2016 4:54 am
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| Yep, cold is a good environment for healing. Good recommendation. |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 10 May 2016 5:31 am
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I have the ulnar (elbow) neuropathy that affects my left ring and pinky fingers, and that is why I left standard and bass guitar and took up steel.
There are some treatments that involve tens type of treatment with medicine on a pad on your elbow. I did that round, and it did not work. My doc said the only other treatment is surgery, and it takes close to a year to get over, and in most cases doesn't work. He advised to wait until pain was too much to take before having surgery.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Rick Johnson
From:
Wheelwright, Ky USA
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Posted 10 May 2016 8:57 am
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I had the same issue with my little finger and
ring finger going numb on my left hand. I had all the nerve study
test done and it was diagnosed as cubital tunnel
syndrome in the ulna nerve. I took a steriod called
prednosone for three months and then took nine months
to taper off the dosage. The surgeon want to move
the nerve out of place onto the inside of my elbow
but there were risks. I might not fix it and possible
danger to the nerve. The neurolgist helped me the most
by changing my sleep pattern and not sleeping on that
side and by wraping a towel around my elbow at night
and try to keep it as straight as possible while sleeping. The towel was just a reminder to make my
brain keep my arm straight.
Hope this helps someone.
Rick
www.rickjohnsoncabinets.com |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 10 May 2016 9:21 am
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| Scott Duckworth wrote: |
I have the ulnar (elbow) neuropathy that affects my left ring and pinky fingers, and that is why I left standard and bass guitar and took up steel.
There are some treatments that involve tens type of treatment with medicine on a pad on your elbow. I did that round, and it did not work. My doc said the only other treatment is surgery, and it takes close to a year to get over, and in most cases doesn't work. He advised to wait until pain was too much to take before having surgery. |
Hey Scott, I had the constant ring/pinky numbness and eventual arm weakness so severe I couldn't pick up a half gallon of milk without 2 hands. I also sold my beautiful Paul Reed Smith electric guitar and bought one of those Steinberger electrics with no body hoping to eliminate any pressure on the underside of my arm. Helped a little. Then not knowing any better (and desperately hoping for a fix that would allow me to return to my career as a software engineer) I let my workers comp company push me to cubital tunnel release surgery. Turned out to be completely unsuccessful and I wouldn't recommend anyone to go that route.
A few months after that I found a non-surgical option that eliminated my ulnar neuropathy very quickly. I began seeing a D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathy aka an Osteopath). No meds or surgery, he began doing what he called "nerve releases" which were just gentle physical stretching and manipulations of the areas from the arms all the way to the spine. He explained that ulnar neuropathy actually originates in one of the upper spinal vertebrae and the entire system from there all the way down to the hand must be clear of any binding for natural healing to take place.
The numbness vanished in a couple weeks treatment and has not returned in over 20 years. My tendinitis is another story and is a constant fight I have to be aware of as it's so easy to overdo and inflame the original injury. But at least I've not had to deal with the ulnar neuropathy again. D.O.'s are not as common as regular docs and can be harder to find, but they're well worth the search.
I'll tell you why surgery is a laughable option for ulnar neuropathy and challenge any surgeon (who mostly believe the solution to everything is to put you under the knife) to convince me otherwise. Ulnar neuropathy is caused by pressure to the ulnar nerve (aka your "funny bone") as it passes through the cubital tunnel of your elbow. Surgery to remove tissue from that tunnel should in theory lessen pressure on the nerve and solve the neuropathy...except for one small detail. Any surgery causes scarring. Scarring across the cubital tunnel reduces the size of the tunnel which in turn puts pressure right back on the ulnar nerve! By opening up the tunnel to release pressure, scarring from the surgery puts pressure right back on the nerve defeating the purpose of the surgery in the first place
Best of luck,
Dennis
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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Joe Ribaudo
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 10 May 2016 9:22 am
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| Rick Johnson wrote: |
| ...changing my sleep pattern and not sleeping on that side... |
That's probably the deal with me as well. I wondered if sleeping with my head on my arm might be a contributing factor. Obviously it is. Will give this a try as well. Excellent. Thanks.
_________________
Sho~Bud Super Pro, Fender Concert, NV400, Orange, (LP's, Tele's, Gretsch, Burns, etc...) |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 10 May 2016 9:32 am
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| Rick Johnson wrote: |
I had the same issue with my little finger and
ring finger going numb on my left hand. I had all the nerve study
test done and it was diagnosed as cubital tunnel
syndrome in the ulna nerve. I took a steriod called
prednosone for three months and then took nine months
to taper off the dosage. The surgeon want to move
the nerve out of place onto the inside of my elbow
but there were risks. I might not fix it and possible
danger to the nerve. The neurolgist helped me the most
by changing my sleep pattern and not sleeping on that
side and by wraping a towel around my elbow at night
and try to keep it as straight as possible while sleeping. The towel was just a reminder to make my
brain keep my arm straight.
Hope this helps someone.
Rick
www.rickjohnsoncabinets.com |
Hey Rick,
my surgeon discussed this approach with me also and called it nerve transposition surgery. He was very much against the procedure and offered me an interesting reason that I remember to this very day. He said, "Dennis, I'm not a religious man in the least but I believe that God put your ulnar nerve on the bottom of your arm for a good reason and that moving it is not a wise choice."
Keith Emerson of Emerson Lake & Palmer had this identical nerve transposition surgery in the mid 90's for his ulnar neuropathy and it was not successful. As a sad update, Keith recently took his own life after experiencing years and years of diminished playing ability and illness (he also had Crohn's disease). His girlfriend has mentioned the arm/hand pain he constantly experienced as a possible factor though no one knows for sure. As I recommended to Scott above, anyone with ulnar neuropathy - or carpal tunnel for that matter - really owes it to themselves to seek out multiple medical opinions - hopefully including a visit to an Osteopath - before they allow a surgeon to start slicing and dicing them up. In many cases, the scar tissue from these surgeries causes more severe pain than the original symptom 
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 10 May 2016 1:02 pm
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Or thoracic outlet syndrome, or carpal, ulnar, neck discs, or, or, or or or... (not to sound like a redneck seal there). When people died as soon as the dire wolves & cave bears & sabre-toothed kitties began picking off the slow ones, a whole multitude of not-yet-invented diseases didn't bother us; as soon as we began living too long, a whole slew begsn cropping up*. My arms, particularly the left, are pretty much snorked all the way up and down nerve-wise. I think it's pretty important to locate the initial and largest causes, because if you depend ONLY on internet-powered old-wives tales (like ours  ) you may be fiddling around waiting for each "cure" to take place, while actually continuing to make things worse because you're chasing the wrong affliction. I don't know what your day job or insurance situation is, but you and your primary-care doc can almost surely find a way to run a set of nerve-conductivity tests for WORK-related reasons, like if your fingers don't work anymore that DOES maybe interfere with the rest of you? It's pretty quick, doctor's office stuff, they just apply little shocks from here to there and thence to a further there, to find out WHERE the slowdowns are realy happening. It can cut WAY down on the self-experimentation TIME you'd spend trying to isolate the problem... like I noticed my numbness got much worse when my hands were stretched further away frum me, like on the far-a-way neck of a doubleneck, but I now KNOW that's the thoracic outlet syndrome, before it was just like, so don't DO that.
Which may still be your best bet for a good long while, as well as the obvious things, like changing around between different bars over the day, looking for activites that overlap between play and work and other life things; and there's a huge amount of getting better at playing music that doesn't require you to hold on tight to a slippery metal bar, how's that sight-singing coming along? Charting out the chord progressions of songs on the radio WITHOUT an instrument, etc. etc. And, etc.
*(I've been told there's something wrong with my sense of humor, but when I see something like "Heart disease is the second-leading cause of death among adults!" Rah, rah, rah, so scary - well if you entirely FIXED that, they'd just nominate a new King of the Hill, right?  ) |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 10 May 2016 1:54 pm
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Thanks for the tips guys. My wife had some good results with a physiotherapist, I may ask him about some of the nerve relaxation.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 10 May 2016 5:07 pm
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lots o doctor types here on the forum.
as well as, of course, self appointed steel
experts. i get a kick out of david mason's interesting disjointed rambling discussions with himself.
the forum is a great place.
luv u guys! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 May 2016 11:10 am
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I dropped in late. I had the problem, too.
Set the height of the back of the guitar so that the wrist neither humps nor dips in the transition from arm to hand.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 13 May 2016 2:37 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
I dropped in late. I had the problem, too.
Set the height of the back of the guitar so that the wrist neither humps nor dips in the transition from arm to hand. |
Well said Lane. It's just like preventing/treating repetitive strain injuries from computing or playing keyboards. The hand and arm should be on the same flat vertical and horizontal plain without any sharp angle at the wrist. It's critical while playing that the blood flow not be restricted into the hands...too much "hump or dip" pinches off the circulation and causes injury.
The illustration is for computer keyboarding but the same applies to pedal steel
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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