Carter Starter Question

Daniel Leslie · From: London, England

Until yesterday I had never played a steel but I sat down at a Carter Starter.

I didn't realise that the 3rd string was the highest! Sounds stupid I know- I just always presumed they went up in increasing order. Why is it like that?

One thing that I am concerned about is that the pedals were very hard to press down individually- particularly the B pedal, without pressing the other ones as well. Does this just take some practice to be able to do properly?

And, also, the knee levers were difficult too. The E and F levers were fine but the two outside ones were quite far away from the my knee and I really had to stretch to move them which made pressing the pedals all the more difficult because my leg had to change position. And some of the levers only had to be moved a couple of inches whereas the other two had to be moved a lot.

This all probably sounds very stupid indeed but are there some alterations that can be made to the levers to get them more comfortably placed or does it just become easier with time and practice?

Thanks.

Sidney Ralph Penton · From: Moberly, Missouri, USA

I got a carter starter about 4 months ago. I am a big guy and the levers are almost too close. ha ha ha. I will look at mine later and see if there is any adjustments on the knee levers. as far as the pedals they should be all about the same maybe put some lube on them. and another thing is ceck to see if one of em is binding on the top side. sid

Glyn Bone · From: Halifax.Nova Scotia. Canada * R.I.P.

Daniel...make sure you are placing your body in the right position...you should be `centred` somewhere between the 12th and 15th frets...this should give you easier access to all your pedals with out feeling either cramped or lost.
hope that this helps my friend. From then on it is merely a case of practice and more practice...Good Luck.
Glyndwr

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

The two top strings on the standard E9th tuning are "out of order" because of the nature of the steel guitar, referencing almost all other instruments. In fact it ties in directly with why pedals and knee levers ultimately had to be, IF a steel players wishes to have the latitude that is inherrent in most other instruments, that can play multiple notes symultaneously.

Take a look at the following tuning:



G#


F#


E


D#


B


G


F#


E


D


B

It would appear to the beginner and even a finished musician (on other instruments, that the above tuning would be correct. In fact there have been and are attempts by a miniscule few to do some or all of this.

However, time has proven that when Buddy Emmons located those two strings where he did, he did it the best way.

Because of the way the tuning lays in music it is best if those two strings hang (ya might say) in space; and then picked only when they are needed; then just as quickly put back in space.

And that is precisely how they are mostly used. In fact most proficient E9th players do not even put the bar over them unless they're being picked. As soon as the notes have sustained sufficient time, the bar is moved back and one of the fingers of the left hand mutes them as the bar is pulling back.

If those two strings were placed as above, it would be very difficult for us to play with the ease we do now. Take a look at strings 3 and 4. They are only a half a tone apart. Because of this, the player must be very accurate and careful NOT to accidently hit one if the other one is the intended target. Also notice where string one is in respect to string 3 and 5.

'tis best if these strings be together. Now, I do not wanted you to get the idea that strings have to be together always on E9th, because we do play "gapped" chords all over the place. However in the case of those top two strings on your guitar, probably as many as 95% of all E9th players would tell you, that everything else considered, the strings fit better where they are.

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 11 July 2004 at 08:54 AM.]

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

Daniel, if you sat down at a pedal steel for the first time yesterday you've got an awful lot of seemingly awkward things to get used to. Your questions aren't stupid at all, they're the same ones every beginning steel player has to find answers to. I'll leave it to better qualified players to answer them but I'll just say stick with it. Spend as many hours at the instrument as you possibly can and with each day you'll be more comfortable with it and the mechanics and string configuration will seem more natural. The rewards are definitely worth the time and effort.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Daniel,
My feeling is that the the levers and pedals are fine where they are. Moving them around won't really help you learn how to play. As a matter of fact my opinion is that steel players waste way to much time tinkering when they should be practicing. Plus if you move the pedals to make it easyer for you now you will need to move them back once you get to the point of actually playing something.

Are you at Hank's on Denmark st ? They had 3 pedalsteels set up when I was there last.

Bob

Daniel Leslie · From: London, England

Thanks for the replies.

Yes it was at Hanks. They had two Carter Starters, a Carter Pro S-10 and two Sierra S-12's. The starer was £100 more expensive there than at Gerry Hogan's shop in Scotland. It was £800 ($1400- we have to pay a lot more over here!).

I played both starters and on one of them the left knee lever didn't seem so far away. Didn't I read somewhere that the earliest models had the lever that was a lot to the left but they moved it in with later models? Maybe I was playing one of each.

I thought that with an instrument of this type it would seem awkward at first and that practice will help with it- I just wanted to check.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I disagree. Sorry but I would be remiss if not.

As late as yesterday, a fellow forumite came over to my house to let me show him some basics. He had recently purchased an old MSA 3 and 3. He has been playing regular guitar for 12 yrs. And has exceptional musical talent. IF I was teaching any more, HE would be the one I would love to teach.

And yet.....

I could NOT play his instrument with the knee levers set where they were. And I have played many an instrument that was not identical to mine, and faired ok.

The knee levers were grossly far away from what most want them to be.

Last year I "approved" of a new student wanting to learn the PSG, when he said he could buy a Carter Starter at a very low price.

NO way could I begin to play that guitar with the position the knee levers were; and how far I had to move them to fully be engaged. IE, LKR was at a 75+ degree angle when the E's were lowered to Eb. At least two pedals bottomed out far below what I have ever seen!

I agree 100% that there are many frustrations a new aspirant to the pedal steel guitar must face and overcome. But I cannot accept that ANY player, regardless of where they are (in their training), has to put up with knee levers and/or pedals that are grossly out of alignment.

I view "frustrations" in another light. I believe strongly that we should, wherever possible, minimize frustrations to aid the student or beginner, so he ONLY has to deal with those frustrations that simply have to be.

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 11 July 2004 at 10:26 AM.]

richard burton · From: Britain

Daniel,
The Carter Starter is made to a price. A very good price for a student guitar with 3+4, in my opinion. If the Starter had multiple positions for the pedals and levers, it would be uneconomic for the Carter folks to produce it. It is up to the player to move things around for optimum player comfort. If you have basic engineering skills, it shouldn't be too difficult to do.
R B

John Sluszny · From: Brussels, Belgium

Remember the first time riding a bike?Or driving a car,or...

Peter · Posted 11 Jul 2004 1:46 pm

Daniel, on my Emmons Guitar, my Left Knee going Left (LKL) lines up with fret 1 and LKR lines up between fret 7 and 8. RKR lines up just before the changer and RKL lines up with fret 20-21.

On my Fender LKL lines up with the nut. I find this lever is difficult to reach.

My body is centered at fret 15. My seat hight is lined up with the top of my kneecaps when standing right next to my seat. It will take a while to find your seating preference.
Good luck!

------------------

Peter den Hartogh
78 Emmons S10 P/P; Fender Artist S10;
Remington U12; Gibson BR4; Guya "Stringmaster"
My Animation College in South Africa

John Fabian · From: Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.

The knee levers on the Carter- Starter are adjustable but cannot be repositioned. The adjustment methods are detailed on the "Quick-Start" DVD that accompanies every Carter-Starter along with suggested ergonomic seating positioning.

KL locations are essentially the same as early Carter Steel Guitars.

------------------
John Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars

www.steelguitar.com
www.steelguitarinfo.com
www.carterstarter.com

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

I have one of the last pair of Nike Air sneakers available from JC Penney. Bought 'em 2 years ago and they're just the right width for my Emmons. Any other sneaker is like trying to play while wearing snowshoes.

Andrew Kilinski · From: Atlanta, GA

Thanks for the kind words Carl, you are a good man. I'm on those knee levers already, and it is the first thing on my list to take care of...after I figure out that break in "Together Again"
(Open Strings?)

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Andrew,

No open strings in "Together Again". I will start you off. Of all keys, Buck recodered it in C#. So place your bar on the 9th fret.

1. pick string 5.

2. pick string 3 and 5 and engage A and B. And release them.

3. Slide immediately down to fret 7 and engage just A as the strings sustain from step 2. And immediately slide back to the 9th fret.

Now that I have you started see if you can learn the entire awesome break of Tom's. Remember except for the last few notes, it is ALL done on strings 3 and 5.

I will help you a bit futher, only fret 9, 7, 4, 2 and 1 are used. Fret 1 is the tricky part. But I have all the confidence in the world Andrew, that you will nail it post haste.

Good luck, and it was a pleasure to help such a bright musically talented player as you are.

You have it man, reach for the sky. I would have given anything at your age to have your "ear".

May Jesus continue to nurture your incredible talents. And may he bless all the rest of you always,

carl

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: