b0b;Earnest&others 12-string?

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Ok guys; I'm setting up an old Marlen Single-12 Extended E9. I only have 5 pedals and 3 knees to go with; so ya'll are the experts and always have great ideas on this tuning(I know there are others; but I was looking mainly at the "tunings" link).
Here's what I have so far and please construct/instruct me on ideas or if this will work(my idea..ha)> thanks everyone for any input and ideas on this, and I'm having fun and wait till you see this baby>wow.

Ricky

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Ok ya talked me into it..ha....Here's the Marlen I'm talkin' about.

Ricky

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

I'm going to do a C6 with the pad in the front....

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I like putting the 3 stock E9th pedals in the middle of the rack of 5. The outer 2 pedals can then be used for experimentation and evolution.

I've found that lowering the low E to D on the so-called "C" pedal is very useful and 100% harmless to the normal "C" pedal usage.

I wouldn't load RKR so heavily. Some people can play complex half-stop levers and some can't. I can't.

Think for a minute about lowering your 2nd string to C# on pedal 0. The "Touch My Heart" contrary motion becomes a simple "pedals up" on the first two pedals. I had my Williams like that for a while - very effective!

------------------

Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Some players, including Joe Wright, put the G# to G change on the left so it can be used in conjunction with the A pedal to for a C# half diminished chord, which necomes an A7 if a bass or guitar player adds the A note.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Five pedals and "only" 3 levers would for me require a slight reconfiguration to get the combinations I use most.



   LKL  P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 RKL RKR


F#                         


Eb      C#                 


G#            A             


E   F            F#     Eb


B          C#    C# C#


G#            A     A#      G


F#                          


E   F                   Eb      


D       C#                   


B          C#                


G#            A             G


E   C#           D


 


or 


 


   LKL  P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 RKL RKR


F#                   F     


Eb      C#                 


G#            A             


E   F            F#     Eb


B          C#    C#   


G#            A             G


F#                   F       


E   F                   Eb      


D       C#                   


B          C#                


G#            A             G


E                F#  C#


 


or keep one of the setups above  


and change RKR to either


 


   RKR1 RKR2 


F#  G    G#                   


Eb  D                 


G#                         


E   


B            


G#  


F#  G    G#


E   


D   


B            


G#


E

The B-Bb was sacrifised in favor of other changes I use more often. It can be installed on P5 where the right foot can play RKL + P5 at the same time as left foot plays P2 + P3 if you want the B-Bb lower in favor of the other changes. P4 and P5 is also a nice combination if the 5th string is split tuned.

I have tried to maximize the flexibility(max useful combinations) the best way I could w a 5P + 3K setup. Some changes/pulls are personal preference and might not suit everybodys playing style.

Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 02 July 2004 at 12:48 AM.]

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Good stuff guys; great things to consider.
Ricky

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I would suggest you keep it simple. It's pretty much all here, IF one can get used to the ABC pedals being one to the right each respectively.






    1  2  3  4  5  LKL  RKL RKR





F#


D#                           D/C#


G#   G     A


E             F#     F    Eb


B       C#    C# A


G#   G     A     F#


F#


E             F#     F    Eb


D                             C#


B       C#       A


G#   G     A   


E                    C#

Respectfully raising the F# to G# on RKR would ruin many things this beautiful lever does, IMO.

Finally I would try anything and expend any effort to get one more knee lever if at all possible; and do the following:






    1  2  3  4  5  LKL LKR   RKL RKR





F#                             G#


D#                             E  D/C#


G#   G     A


E             F#     F   Eb


B       C#    C# A


G#   G     A                   F#     


F#


E             F#     F   Eb


D                                  C#


B       C#       A


G#   G     A                   F#   


E                    C#

Note: split the middle and bottome G# to A's with RKL.

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 01 July 2004 at 08:35 AM.]

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 01 July 2004 at 08:38 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Very good, Carl! Except for one thing...

I've been playing 12 string E9th for 26 years now, and I've never felt the need to lower the 10th string to A. The A note is always available on the 11th string.

------------------

Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Ricky-I think you got it all together for what you are looking for.

Here is one change I would recommend. Raise the 7th string F# to G with the 4th pedal, then you can get a nice diminished with 4th and 5th pedal together without a clash, that 4th pedal pull also will work great with the B pedal for blues. 6th to the 7th.

You would have to use both feet for the blues part but who cares, Some of the top guys have used both feet on C6 playing.

It wouldn't hurt to take the foot off the volume pedal for certain combinations, once in awhile.. On my tuning I PLAN the tuning to use both feet in certain cases on my E6 tuning....al

------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 01 July 2004 at 10:49 AM.]

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

RIcky, I think your original idea is good considering your 3 lever limit. But I would move the low E to D change from pedal 5 to pedal 3.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Carl D.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I like Carls a lot, I think the G lower needs to be right near AB on P1,
to be fast enough. If it isn't on a lever.

One thought I have is to replace the pedal C with the Franklin 0 pedal right next to AB, (P4 if G lower is P1)
and THEN make P5 a B+C on one pedal.
it does get used, but not that much.

I don't find to many instances of not playing B and C at the exact same time.
Though someone will likely now give one.

Then you get those II or VI minors still,
a I minor fast,
and The Franklin P0

I would miss the Bb-B vertical one way oranother.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

b0b,

Lowering of the 10th string to an A on my pedal 5 is part of the Paul Franklin pedal. IE, he lowers 5, 6 and 10 a whole tone. Note upper setup. However Tommy White has recently split these changes.

If you will note my RKL 6th string (lower setup), Tommy uses this change (not necessarily where I have it) with lowering 5 and 10 a whole tone. If we removed the lowering of 10 in either chart, you would be missing a lot of licks both Paul and Tommy are noted for. This is why I included it.

In essence what both PF and TW are doing is altering the spelling for given phrases. IE instead of 4, 5 and 6 using the pedal, they will use 4, 5 and 10 instead.

Same as 3, 5 and 8 versus 3, 4 and 5; or 4, 6 and 10 in lieu of 4, 5 and 6 using the A and B pedals.

It would not work (moving tone wise) with the raising of 11 to an A.

Bengt, I am with you dear friend.

carl

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Thanks guys I'm overwhelmed. Thanks Doug; you'da Man.
Ricky

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Ricky, I think it's good that you lower G# and B on P4 and P5 where the right foot can reach them.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Ricky, just out of curiosity, why aren't you lowering the high G# to G with the other two? Lacka parts?

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Thanks again Doug; I was thinking the same.
b0b; well this is the single finger pull release; as you know this system...and the amount of travel the finger has to go back for the high G# string; makes for a LOOOONG pull on the finger the other way to raise it...just not condusive to a good feel for this particular mechanics.
So that has me scratchin' my head too as for what would be ok and what would be too difficult for this guitar to be a player.
I can make the guitar do anything; but I also don't want it to be far off for the amount of feel and travel that the perspective buyer would be used to.
So with all that said..ha....I think all the ideas here are wonderful...but I need simple and the least amount of stuff to get away with and yes parts for this guitar are IMPOSSIBLE to find/get...as Leonard changed diameter of crossbars when he went to his all pull changer in the very late 70's; and so knee levers and pullers and bla bla...that I can come by; will NOT fit this guitar as they are mounted in the Apron..and there's more; but I'll take a breath now..ha.
Ricky

Steven Black · From: Gahanna, Ohio, USA

Hey Ricky, really niiiiiice Marlin, Sweeeeeeet, as the people of Dodge trucks would say. steveb Desert Rose Guitar 8+5.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Hey Ricky,
Being in Texas I think you'd need something so you could still do a good job at western swing so I'd go with something like this. It's sort of an extended E9/B6 semi-universal. Have a great one...JH



  <  1  2  3  4  5   <   >


F#


D#                       D/C#


G#      A


E  F                 D#


B    C#    C#


G#      A  A#


F#             F


E  F                 D#


D                C   C#  C#


B    C#          A#


G#      A


E              F D#

Maybe there's a couple of ideas you can use here........Have a good 'un..JH

------------------
Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic