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Topic: 1954 Console Grande |
Brad Davis
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2016 10:23 pm |
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Just acquired an all original Gibson Console Grande. No serial/FON that I can tell -- it was described as being a '54 model and it seems correct for that year. It has 4 screw-in legs, sunburst maple, P-90 type pickups, purple plush case stores legs in the bottom. Plus it weighs like 40 pounds! Everything is original and in working order. I briefly thought about replacing the old switch, pots and caps, but talked myself out of it. Everything is working pretty well and the guitar sounds darn good, in spite of my iffy playing. Even so, is there a wiring diagram for these things? I don't really get the second tone knob, the "presence" dial or whatever it is. I can't really tell that it does anything very noticeable to my ear. Even the main tone knob is functional but not dramatic. The guitar is in very good condition overall, with a nice patina from 62 years of history and playing, without excessive wear and tear. The tuners could use some disassembly for more cleaning, but they work fine too. I got the original legs and case, and also an extra set of telescoping legs. Lotta miles left in this gem, and it sounds awesome 
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Keith Glendinning
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 10 Mar 2016 11:51 pm
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I'm very jealous of the guitars that you guys regularly say you've just bought!
Here in the UK they're as rare as anything you can imagine. We can scour eBay.com and purchase guitars, but the taxes and shipping make these great instruments overpriced for us.
Back to your original post.
What not try cleaning the pots and switch with regular electronic cleaner spray/lube before going any further, ensuring that they work OK. Gibson initially designed the electronics and installed the correct components for the guitar to give the best possible sound for the music which was played at that time. If they now prove to be faulty or worn out, that's when you should think about replacement parts from a reputable supplier or better still, by a luthier who has a proven background in this type of vintage instrument.
Enjoy your great looking guitar,
Keith. |
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Blake Hawkins
From:
Florida
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Posted 11 Mar 2016 7:24 am
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The third knob is a "Treble" control. It controls a cap connected in series with the signal and attenuates the bass frequencies. If everything is working, it will make the guitar sound very thin and tinny.
The control is connected across the cap and
shorts the cap out when you don't want to decrease the bass.
The other control "Bass" is connected as a conventional tone control and attenuates the treble frequencies. |
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Brad Davis
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2016 10:27 am
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| Thanks. I can replace the parts myself, but if the originals work even with a little conditioning then I think it is highly preferable to keep them. I'm not sure modern parts will exactly match the taper of the old pots for example. I will probably get some contact cleaner, although the pots do turn easily enough and are not scratchy at all. The "bass" pot seems to have a hot spot/notch right at the 2 mark, where it completely fails to bleed off any signal, not sure what to do about that but its not a big deal. The treble I can detect just the most minimal effect on the bass strings, maybe. |
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Blake Hawkins
From:
Florida
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Posted 11 Mar 2016 7:00 pm
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I would spray and lubricate the pots first and only replace them as a last resort. I think Gibson used
300k pots which is between the usual 250k or 500k.
If it has the "famed bumblebee" cap. Then it is bad.
My CG had one in it and it was completely shorted.
The Gibson six string pickers have sort of a cult about the bumblebee caps. I did component level service on electronics equipment for many years.
Those caps would appear in $15 table radios, $5000 TV monitors, and $250,000 quad videotape recorders.
Every bumblebee cap I tested was bad.
Don't know who made them. Some say Sprague but I don't think so. Sprague made quality products and these no-name caps were very poor. |
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Brad Davis
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2016 7:47 pm
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I took a look. The caps are Grey Tiger GT4S2, 0.02uF, waxed
And I was wrong, I think the volume pot has almost certainly been replaced. Its a similar looking style of CTR pot, but newer solder, newer jacketed wires instead of the old braided shielded wire, newer looking shaft, missing a washer underneath the control plate. Some miniscule damage to the knob may have been caused during the change. Anyway looks like I've got 250k volume, vintage 250k bass and 500k treble.
So now I'm thinking maybe I WILL need to redo some of this. |
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Blake Hawkins
From:
Florida
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Posted 12 Mar 2016 1:44 pm
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The wax caps you have were quality components when they were installed in 1955.
Since there is very little voltage in a guitar such caps rarely go completely shorted. What happens is that they will increase in capacity over time and develop some resistance. If you have access to a capacitor checker you can test them.
However the easy thing to do is to replace them
with modern caps and see if it changes the tone and if the controls do what they are supposed to do.
The values of your controls are fine.
Just for comparison, my 1949 CG has 500k volume,50K bass, and 500K treble. The tone caps are .02 mfd on the bass and .001 mfd on the treble. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 13 Mar 2016 3:34 am
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| Keith Glendinning wrote: |
I'm very jealous of the guitars that you guys regularly say you've just bought!
Here in the UK they're as rare as anything you can imagine. We can scour eBay.com and purchase guitars, but the taxes and shipping make these great instruments overpriced for us.
Back to your original post.
What not try cleaning the pots and switch with regular electronic cleaner spray/lube before going any further, ensuring that they work OK. Gibson initially designed the electronics and installed the correct components for the guitar to give the best possible sound for the music which was played at that time. If they now prove to be faulty or worn out, that's when you should think about replacement parts from a reputable supplier or better still, by a luthier who has a proven background in this type of vintage instrument.
Enjoy your great looking guitar,
Keith. |
Keith here in the UK guitar alley London Denmark street have 3 of these ranging from good condition to really poorly maintained.
The price range that I found in Denmark Street where I saw them is ridiculous. From £1200 -£1700. We just don't get any deals or variety over here for steel guitars ever.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 13 Mar 2016 3:42 am
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Can you imagine paying $1600 for a poorly maintained Lap Steel Guitar in the US. Rubbish.
Then they say it's a Gibson. Who cares if it's in really bad shape. I wouldn't consider spending that on a Lap Steel Guitar that was damaged and rusted and needed a complete overhaul. So instead of doing deals they leave it there as the condition worsens. I first saw them 3 years ago and they are happy to leave them there to rot rather than giving an affair deal. So if you really want one Keith youll find them in London Denmark Street.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 13 Mar 2016 6:49 am
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| Quote: |
Stefan Robertson Can you imagine paying $1600 for a poorly maintained Lap Steel Guitar in the US. Rubbish.
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Last time I visited Denmark Street, I was offered a single neck Stringmaster 6 string (I think they have another name) for 900 GBP. Despite the convincing discussion of the sales guy that this was a snap for such a rarity, I was able to resist!
\paul
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 13 Mar 2016 7:04 am
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| Paul Seager wrote: |
| Quote: |
Stefan Robertson Can you imagine paying $1600 for a poorly maintained Lap Steel Guitar in the US. Rubbish.
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Last time I visited Denmark Street, I was offered a single neck Stringmaster 6 string (I think they have another name) for 900 GBP. Despite the convincing discussion of the sales guy that this was a snap for such a rarity, I was able to resist!
\paul |
I feel your pain Paul. Somehow over here they seem to think because a Lap Steel Guitar is old no matter what condition it's in it must be sold for an exorbitant amount. Funny thing is they NEVER end up getting sold and will sit there as a decoration and the shops don't care. They make their money off of guitars. Shame real shame.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Brad Davis
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2016 9:53 am
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I'm sorry you fellas have so much trouble getting something this nice. Honestly I don't mind a seller make a little money off of me, its the way the market works. But condition matters, and don't go throwing a name in my face. Gibson made untold number of "vintage" instruments that really aren't worth much. Sellers should be willing to haggle some, because cash in hand is surely better than inventory sitting around for years.
For Console Grande lap steels specifically, if they sold new for about $500 USD in 1954 that would equate to about $4500 today with inflation. Even after some depreciation for age and wear they might retain $2000-$3000 in value IN A HEALTHY MARKET. Clearly they don't command that much because lap steels are a small niche market. The going rate for these is probably $600-$1600 USD, but condition matters, originality matters, scarcity matters, and particular desirable years matter.
This particular guitar is a somewhat desirable year/model, in good working order and very good condition. It has just enough gentle use to have character and charm without seeming completely worn out and in need of an overhaul or the scrap heap. I certainly didn't pay top dollar for this one, but I hope the seller made a tidy sum on the transaction and I'm happy to have it. |
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Brad Davis
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2016 9:58 am
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| Blake Hawkins wrote: |
The wax caps you have were quality components when they were installed in 1955.
Since there is very little voltage in a guitar such caps rarely go completely shorted. What happens is that they will increase in capacity over time and develop some resistance. If you have access to a capacitor checker you can test them.
However the easy thing to do is to replace them
with modern caps and see if it changes the tone and if the controls do what they are supposed to do.
The values of your controls are fine.
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Luxe Radio makes repros of these caps now:
https://luxe-radio.com/collections/gibson/products/1952-1956-grey-tiger-matched-pair-of-wax-impregnated-02mf-capacitors-black-ink
They say they commonly appear on Gibsons from 1952 thru 1956. Supposed to be good quality, I think that is a cool option. Even if the original caps aren't bad, they are 62 years old and may have drifted far off spec. Need to find my multimeter. |
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Brad Davis
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2016 2:15 pm
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My contribution to posterity. I think its at least close to correct.
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Chris Cummings
From:
England
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Posted 7 Apr 2016 7:08 am Gibson Console Grande - UK
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| I have a late 1950's Console Grande in near mint condition and I live in the UK ! I mainly play my Fender on gigs so I'm happy to sell to a UK steel player a lot cheaper than Denmark Street ! |
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