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Topic: Steel with organ? |
John Scanlon
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2015 9:21 pm |
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I was backing up a local guy here recently with whom I've played steel live a few times, but this time, he kind of insinuated on the front end that he wanted me to stick to six string and harmony vox since the band at this particular gig also featured an organ player friend of mine who's "got the long notes." I did as told, but both the organ player and I privately agreed that it's simply not true that you can't have both organ and steel in the same backing band. (I think steel could make a decent swelling-chord instrument, like an organ, but when both are present, the steel could simply do other things.)
Any good examples of this?
The closest thing that comes to my mind is this (esp. 2:00-3:00):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VxL_O87MAs
Yes, I realize it's all Rusty, but it gets the idea across of what could be done in a combo with both organ and PSG.
_________________
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 16 Sep 2015 9:46 pm The BEST organ/steel guitar team-up I've ever heard.........
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Back in the days at the Grand Ole Opry when Red Foley hosted the Prince Albert part of the live Opry broadcast.......(1948=1950)
Owen Bradly (organ) and Billy Robinson (steel) did some great playing as a team.
Owen was on several different Decca Records.......
one of my favorites was "Tennessee Polka" to name but one. |
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Edward Rhea
From:
Medford Oklahoma, USA
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 17 Sep 2015 3:59 am
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A few years ago I played with this band. There are a few moments where steel and organ play at the same time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEFoFYzxZxo
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Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 17 Sep 2015 4:12 am
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It's probably not the point that you can't have the two together, but that he (the guy who's calling the shots) evidently didn't want the two together.
Why is that not okay? |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 17 Sep 2015 4:48 am
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I play with organ players pretty often with no problems or conflicts. What I do is double the part and blend in whatever helps the music. Warm lows , overdriving grind or shimmery overtones. Take whatever the organ is doing and take it just a bit farther.
Or I create some sort of counterpoint within the existing organ part. I try to think of what a viola would do in a string quartet.
In order to stay musical outside of traditional steel roles it is important to not try to be another singing voice. Think inside the music instead of the usual on top of the music like we are in country music.
Cooperate instead of compete.
If it is a question of budget where the 5th guy is a steel or a keyboard then it is up to the whim of the bandleader. If you can bring more to the table then the guy playing keys you stand a better chance of getting the gig.
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Bob |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2015 8:09 am
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The "playing well together" thing can also be an issue with violin, sax, harmonica, and for different reasons, hot dog guitarists as well. It's always a matter of listening to each other and playing for the song first, which can be a challenge or a joy.
I agree the bandleader or musical director should call the shots. His choices may be informed by past negative experiences with players who didn't listen to each other.
Some of my most joy-filled musical experiences have been spontaneous collaborations with instruments who weren't supposed to "fit" with steel, and just knew how to listen. Ear candy.
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2015 9:17 am
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| Quote: |
| The "playing well together" thing can also be an issue with violin, sax, harmonica, and for different reasons, hot dog guitarists as well. It's always a matter of listening to each other and playing for the song first, which can be a challenge or a joy. |
Copy That! 
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 17 Sep 2015 9:49 am
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Organ & steel can work together just fine, believe me.
It all depends on who's doing the playing and what's played... |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2015 7:44 pm Steel with Organ.
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| About 10 years ago a band I played in every weekend had a Keyboard, (organ) player. Eddy and I had a lot of respect for each other and it went great. Seven Spanish Angels, We got many good comments on. What we found was do not stay in the same octive. If the keyboard (organ) goes high, Go back up the neck and 10,8,6 or 8,6,5 strings, or opposite. If the organ is playing long smooth notes, Some chimes and one string notes laid in another layer Gives some very nice expression. We was lucky, The band leader told us to work it out together. If the Organ player is a serious about the music, May be a great experience. Good Luck and have a great time. |
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Stephen Gregory
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Posted 17 Sep 2015 7:57 pm
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| Some call the "b3' s" used in Nashville, "Steel Erasers". |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 17 Sep 2015 9:08 pm
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B3s and steel are match made in heaven.
Same goes for Rhodes. Just something about the overtones that make intonation easy.
On the other hand, many earlier digital keyboards are a nightmare.
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 17 Sep 2015 10:09 pm
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I'm not sure if this works in the States, but here's a song from an album we did recently with Finnish progrock legend Jukka Gustavson.
Features B3 and steel.
https://open.spotify.com/track/3cmAdNobk5hi3QfgLEm2XQ
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Bobby Hearn
From:
Henrietta, Tx
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Posted 31 May 2016 7:24 pm
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| Not if I can help it... |
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GaryL
From:
Medina, OH USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2016 3:57 pm Organ with steel
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Listen to Jamey Johnson's CD's. His keyboard player is great. There has organ plus steel on a lot of his recordings.
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 1 Jun 2016 4:11 pm
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in my experience this happens fairly regularly with bandleader/star/singers who have preconceived notions that are generally dumb and come from inexperience and ignorance.
unless you're a bad steel player, that would be my guess. |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 1 Jun 2016 5:42 pm
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| Or a bad organ player... |
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john buffington
From:
Owasso OK - USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2016 6:25 pm
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| Jimmy Day recorded an album quite a few years ago, "In Jesus Name We Play" using only an organ and bass guitar along with his steel. Sounds incredible IMO. Very creative to say the least. I never tire of listening to it. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2016 7:49 am
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I used to play in church with an organ player and I really enjoyed it, other people seemed to also.  |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 2 Jun 2016 10:33 am
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I think steel can work fine with organ as long as you follow the excellent advice given by Bob Hoffnar and have a tasteful organ player.
OK, I wouldn't call this a 'good' example - I had been playing pedal steel less than a year at this point, this was my first band with steel and I really didn't know what the hell I was doing. But we had an excellent B3 player who was very intuitive about this kind of thing. Listen to the way he extends the the last phrase of my 'solo', such as it is, back into the verse. Strictly live, no overdubs, in a radio station - http://acs.ist.psu.edu/mudgett/files/kris-kehr/05-stone-poets-sing-me-back-home-wvia-live-1999.mp3 - I'm not sure I can think of another instrument that could have followed-on like this.
The steel is a 1980 Franklin that I had just gotten (and needed a serious teardown/clean/lube) into a Deluxe Reverb. But anything good about the steel on this clip is all that Franklin with its original hand-wound single-coil pickups and that amp, 'cause I really had no clue at this point. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 2 Jun 2016 12:53 pm
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| john buffington wrote: |
| Jimmy Day recorded an album quite a few years ago, "In Jesus Name We Play" using only an organ and bass guitar along with his steel. Sounds incredible IMO. Very creative to say the least. I never tire of listening to it. |
Jimmy said to me one time, referring to two steels in a band, was that "having two steel guitars in a band was like having two Hammond organs."
I knew what he meant. Although the steel and the organ can both play legato "long notes," so can violins, cellos, and saxophones. What is significant is that the steel fills a certain sonic timbre that the Hammond does not. So they can work together without crowding each others sonic space.
Two steels, OTOH, each produce the same timbre, so the parts each play must be planned out to be complementary and not competitive. A good example would be Bob White and Pee Wee Whitewing playing twins with Thompson's band. Each saw themselves as part of a section, rather than being entirely individual soloists only.
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Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Wally Moyers
From:
Lubbock, Texas
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Posted 2 Jun 2016 4:35 pm
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My two favorite instruments are Pedal Steel and B3...
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 3 Jun 2016 2:48 am
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I just recorded several tunes for my record with a Hammond and Leslie. It was glorious. We had zero conflict.
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Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2016 3:22 am
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| Where I went to church for a few years we had an organ. Most always it was too loud and I was not the only one who thought so. It just put a bad taste in my mouth so I just do not enjoy playing music with one nor do I enjoy hearing one. I will say that I have heard some people play organ that were really talented musicians. To me a steel and organ just clash when played together. |
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John Scanlon
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2016 9:04 am
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| chris ivey wrote: |
in my experience this happens fairly regularly with bandleader/star/singers who have preconceived notions that are generally dumb and come from inexperience and ignorance.
unless you're a bad steel player, that would be my guess. |
Ha! That may in fact be it!
All kidding aside, I understand a band leader having ultimate say and preferences, and my OP was really not asking why he would want that or what I should do about it. I get all of that, and I was just explaining that it got me thinking about those preconceived notions.
What I was really asking was whether any of you had experiences playing in or listening to groups where both steel and organ played roles together.
_________________
Click here for the Index to Mickey Adams's YouTube video lessons
Insert impressive gear list here. |
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