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Topic: Why is there so little info on E9th/B6th |
John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 13 Feb 2016 4:30 am |
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There seems to little info on this tuning,as its getting more popular I would have thought there would.
Info on what each pedal and knee lever as to what they do.what chord they made.ideas |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Feb 2016 5:22 am
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Probably because by comparison there are so few out there. Then consider that so many players have trouble just getting started on E9th alone ! Nobody wants to jump into the pond cause right now we are still treading water in the kiddy pool! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 13 Feb 2016 6:23 am
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| As I'm waiting to receive my E9/B6 BMI, I ordered the Newman video and a couple from David Wright. I think they will get me pointed enough in the right direction, then I should just be able to use any C6 instruction and transpose it. I'm looking forward to it! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Feb 2016 7:10 am
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E9th and C6th remain the most popular tunings. Whenever you choose to use something else, something that 90% of players out there aren't using, you just have to accept that there'll be less resources available.
Just sayin'.  |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 13 Feb 2016 7:11 am
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The "universal" tuning in its E9/B6 manifestation should really be called "combined" as it superimposes two existing tunings. This was made possible by the advent of the all-pull changer. The first pull-release changers with A & B pedals enabled E and A tunings to be combined on to one neck, and history has repeated itself.
| John Roche wrote: |
| Info on what each pedal and knee lever as to what they do |
There is no more of a standard setup with a uni than there is with other tunings; the pedals are usually the same as on a D10 and the levers can be anywhere, apart from the constraint that the E lower has to be where it can be held on while you do other things. This is most likely RKR although some like LKR.
| Justin Emmert wrote: |
| I should just be able to use any C6 instruction and transpose it. |
Well, that's what I do. I tune the rear neck of my D10 to B also to avoid damaging my brain, although I don't play it much any more (to avoid damaging my back!)
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 13 Feb 2016 7:13 am
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| Larry Bell's site gives an excellent overview of E9/B6 as it relates to the E9 and C6 necks. And yes, Jeffran is a good introduction. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 13 Feb 2016 7:27 am
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Donny is right - it is a small market, and you can use all the existing material anyway. How to get the best out of a uni setup is personal. Because I play Day and have no traditional P4, I have the A pedal next to P5 which is useful in many ways but of no interest to an Emmons player. I have P6 on a lever so I can rock between 5 & 7, but there's no point me writing a book about that either. And then there's the 9th string....
And yes, Jon - Larry Bell is well worth a read.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 Feb 2016 8:56 am
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The E9/B6 can do EVERYTHING that the C6th can do, so all of the C6th material works on it (although you're gonna have to do Raisin' the Dickens and Remington Ride in C#).
If you have a lever that raises the B string to D or that lowers the 8th string to D, you can do 90% of what the E9th neck can do, so all of the E9th stuff can work.
It's up to your personality and approach to decide which pockets to use when.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 13 Feb 2016 10:13 pm
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I've been playing the E9-B6 tuning since 2003, when, I got my new U-12 ZumSteel. In the beginning I stumbled around with the 6th side of it. I got Jeff Newmans U-12 introduction course and it helped a lot. I also got so,e of Buddy Emmons's tabs for C6 and used them for practice. I'm mostly an E9 player, but, I love Western Swing and this tuning works perfectly for what I want. The sounds can be switched seamlessly while playing, to give a different flavor to any song you play that warrants it. It's really like one big tuning. I wouldn't know how to categorize it incrementally, though. Depending on how my mood effects me, I can use all the pedals and knee levers in a given song to get the feeling I want. There's no switching of necks. It's all done on one neck. And, the relation of the chords to the frets is not very hard to grasp. My U-12 is a single body steel, which, I don't think you can load up with a lot pedals and knee levers. Mine has 7+5 for the Newman tuning and it works for me. I think if one wanted to add more changes an SD body would work better because of the wider body. As to why the popularity is not that high, I have no idea. Maybe because of tradition. Who knows for sure. I, personally, like a single neck because I have shorter arms and D-10's are uncomfortable for me.
There are a few instructional courses out there for the U-12 and you can use any C6th course, just remember, you're in B tuning not C when you approach it. |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2016 10:24 pm
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I'm getting my new E9/C6 from Excel in about a week. We figured out a way to keep the D on string 9. Can't wait.
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 14 Feb 2016 1:35 am
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the issue isn't so much that the E9/B6 can do everything other stock tunings can do, it indeed can....it's really more about can the player understand that. IF players are struggling with E9 and look at C6 like some sort of foreign entity, then they would never consider the E9/B6 and then from that the support material would be minimal at best.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 14 Feb 2016 2:17 am
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| I tend to agree with you Tony. I went to the uni tuning after years of playing around with the 6th side of playing the E9th tuning. Flatting the E's, A+B pedal + the 7th string or just the A pedal with strings 3,4,5. They all sound good, but, there's no bottom end. I guess I already had a leg up in that direction. Jeff Newmans introduction course helped me expand my knowledge a bit. Also, like I said, adapting a C-6th course to the uni also helped. It's not a daunting task, but, it takes perseverance. I could go on and on about the pleasure I get from one big tuning, but, that'd probably bore the hell out of everybody. I do wish that, there were more courses on it though. Playing it is quite an enjoyable adventure. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 14 Feb 2016 2:59 am
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| John De Maille wrote: |
| As to why the popularity is not that high, I have no idea. Maybe because of tradition. |
If I had played PSG all my life on a D10 loaded up with all the favourite changes I had found over the years, I would not be able to take it all with me to a universal. But if like me you haven't been playing long and the basic changes are quite enough; and you're getting too old to haul a big instrument; then I'm with John - it has everything I'm ever likely to want, and where the two tunings overlap there are bonuses.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2016 1:30 pm My S12 copedant
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Someone pm'd me for the copedant on my new Excel, which is coming in about a week. I really won't know how well it'll work until I try it! It's the one at the bottom of the attached picture.
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 15 Feb 2016 12:59 am psg
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| Lower the E's on the E9th and there's a ton of C6th there in the B6th mode. |
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John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 15 Feb 2016 1:09 am
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What chords are made with pedals 5 & 8 on the above pohto
from Glenn? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 15 Feb 2016 1:51 pm
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John, do you mean 5 & 8 individually or together?
First off, the low D# on P5 looks odd but Glenn may have his reasons - D would be more usual to give a D9 chord up as far as string 4.
P8 gives an A7 with a #9 on string 5.
5 & 8 together give a very useful A6 on strings 6 thru 10.
There is no Gb anywhere on either tuning - it should be an F#. There are some other dubious spellings but I don't want to draw the wrath of the anti-theorists.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Ben Edmonds
From:
Greenfield, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2016 3:45 pm
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I just made the switch a few weeks ago and I think I'm glad I did! Like some of you, I was playing lots of "B6" on my e9 neck but missed the fat chords and low end of my C neck. Upon getting the uni I realized it's gonna take some work to incorporate the whole tuning on the fly but I'm pretty excited about it and I like the challenge. The setup on mine is. Bit strange compared to standard C6 mostly just the pedal 6 on a knee which makes total sense to me to have it there on so many levels but it is a bit confusing to me at first.
I DO miss my D string but I can get it on the knee and I feel like I used it so much on E9 to get some funk outta that neck that there are so many more big 7th and altered chords on the uni that I can live without it but it a wicked learning curve. To really kick me in the gut, the day I got it I got called for a full time gig so I'm jumping in the uni world with both feet. Hahaha it's the only way to learn!
I didn't answer the question about material but I am a new convert so I wanted to say something |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2016 8:10 pm
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I'm always curious as to why people don't make up their OWN instructional material. IE;, how do YOU play? More chords, pads, single note lines and fills?
Look at what any new tuning offers. Chart it out as scale tones… what each new string and lever presents in EVERY pedal/ lever position.
Then work out the things you ALREADY do- if they lie in different positions (D note now on a lever, etc.) map out some exercises that will help ingrain the new positions and new harmonic possibilities into your bag. If this takes looking a bit deeper into chord/scale theory, well, it's good for you!
Especially with "universal" or B6/E9 tunings, other players are probably going to have slightly different setups and approaches to playing than you will. If it's hard to find a custom course, time to build your own.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Feb 2016 9:08 pm
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| Mark van Allen wrote: |
| I'm always curious as to why people don't make up their OWN instructional material. IE;, how do YOU play? More chords, pads, single note lines and fills? |
The shorter videos I've done are kinda like that. Explaining bits of my approach. I'm no good at talking about hoe to play, but I think I do OK at what and why
| Quote: |
Especially with "universal" or B6/E9 tunings, other players are probably going to have slightly different setups and approaches to playing than you will. If it's hard to find a custom course, time to build your own. |
A lot of folks seem to need guidance on where to find it on the neck, no matter what "it" is.
I usually can find something to play wherever I am. But I'm weird.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2016 11:27 pm
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I bought a like new, used GFI S12 7X4 and it laid around for a while. Dec. 2,2015 I put new strings on it, and Put my S10 MSA in its case and under the bed.
I got the Jeff Newman Video with the guitar. The lesson gives the tuning and that is about it. In switching guitars I set up like Newmans. I play Day Setup, Left to Right BCA. I moved D lever from LKL to RKR It lowers 4&8 E's and 2 to C#. F lever from LKR to RKR. I have 9th B-D 2nd D#-D on LKL. And 5th B-BF on Vert LKR. I am now getting the lever set in my memory and don't have to think about the changes. I have the E9th part pretty well back till I feel comfortable. I have an Emmons C6th lesson set. Going to get it out and see if I can use it on the B6 part to help with it. I will have to transpose it to this guitar. I wish I could find something for the B6 neck. Now back to the Wood Shed to try and get the B6 together so I can play it. Slave to PSG
I will post the tuning soon as I get a picture taken & loaded. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 17 Feb 2016 3:35 am
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
| Going to get it out and see if I can use it on the B6 part to help with it. I will have to transpose it to this guitar. |
It takes a little while to get used to playing everything up a fret, but once you do it opens the door to all the C6 material that's out there. I'm not sure there's anything for B6 as such.
Before I had my uni, I tuned my back neck down to B and worked through the Emmons course, so I've never actually played C6 at all!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 17 Feb 2016 4:06 am
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The Newman Universal course deals with the B6th side and none of the E9th and is a good course to get going on the 6th stuff.
The reason that there is not a lot of universal material is because you can use E9th and C6th tabs and lessons for the universal tuning.
If you are used to C6th there is more tension on the strings so a Universal may sound thinner to you but in time one seems to just get used to it and the sound will balance out to sound correct. |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 17 Feb 2016 9:49 am
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Mark, as a fairly recent convert to universal, are sticking with it?
I made the switch about seven years ago and I'm still convinced that I made the right choice, for the stuff I play...
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Ollin Landers
From:
Willow Springs, NC
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Posted 17 Feb 2016 2:18 pm
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I started this thread awhile back. You may find it usefull.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=274074&highlight=
_________________
Zum SD-12 Black, Zum SD-12 Burly Elm Several B-Bender Tele's and a lot of other gear I can't play.
I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted. W.C. Fields |
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