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Topic: Upgrading keyhead & tuners on a Carter Starter |
Bob Sykes
From:
North Carolina
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Posted 25 Feb 2016 7:08 pm |
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Let me say first that I know I can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear and I am well aware of all the limitations of the Carter Starter. At the top of my list is the cheap tuning keys.
A friend recently told me that he had a "box of steel guitar parts" in his shop including a nice keyhead with Schaller tuners. Was I interested? Well yes I would love to replace mine. There's very little info about keyhead mounting in the SGF archives. Understandable, since most folks never need to think about this. I haven't seen the potential replacement keyhead in person, but I'm guessing it might be from a Marlin or Emmons as both were built near here. From what I can tell, most keyheads are secured by machines screws coming up from the body cavity. The Starter mounting is completely different, so I'll have to make some holes in the body to align with the new keyhead. The Starter keyhead is about 6" long where the new one is about 7" long so it may hang over the end of the guitar. I can live with that.
Other than the above-mentioned kludges, are there other reasons for not making this "improvement"? Pointers? Pitfalls?
adTHANKSvance,
Bob
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Carters Starter, D10 8+7, SD10, Chandler RH-2, Rogue RLS-1
ISO Sustainus Ad Infinitum |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 25 Feb 2016 7:52 pm
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| The height of the nut/rollers above the top deck (string height) matter, as well as the overall width and string to string spacing at the nut. You might ask your friend for these dimensions too. |
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Pat Chong
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2016 9:16 pm
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What Mr Ian said is right, adding that you would want to keep the strings parallel to the fingerboard.
..........Pat |
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Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2016 9:20 pm
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many years ago when i owned a C/S and was having problems with it ,
i took it to Bobby Bowman and he ended up reworking it with ( i kid you not ) Emmons parts
i had the only C/S Emmons hybrid in existence ..lol...you never know what can be done in the right hands ...lol
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
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Bob Sykes
From:
North Carolina
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Posted 26 Feb 2016 2:40 pm thanks
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Thanks for info. We will have the box o parts and cs in the same room soon and i will make some more measurements with the above in mind. I may ask my friend if he will do the work or help me if this seems practical. He builds high end acoustic guitars but knows very little about psg. He may have no inclination to mess with it. There are some additional parts in box that he cannot identify. I am curious... could be another hybrid on the horizon 
_________________
Carters Starter, D10 8+7, SD10, Chandler RH-2, Rogue RLS-1
ISO Sustainus Ad Infinitum |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 26 Feb 2016 3:10 pm
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| One other thing when you get to installing is to make sure the top center plane of the roller nut on the new keyhead aligns in the right place relative to your fret board or your intonation will be all screwed up. |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 26 Feb 2016 3:25 pm
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Yes--it is essential that the length, from the apex of the roller nut to the apex of the changer finger be precise. And it is important that the keyhead be very firmly secured.
This would be a foolish project if money were being put into the C-S but if it's coming out of a parts box, it sounds like a good idea. Low cost hardware upgrades can only be good (if done well). |
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Bob Sykes
From:
North Carolina
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Posted 28 Feb 2016 12:26 pm nothing is ever simple
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I got the box o parts. The challenge is height. The (presuambly) emmons axle is about a quarter inch too high. Any one know the thickness of a cs cabinet top? Scale length does not look like an issue. String spacing is the same. Coming up with an axle should be easy. Worst case I can use some string ends for rollers as on the cs now. The problem playing at zero fret wont be any worse.
I assume this is a long keyhead? (As opposed to the Emmons SKH) Its about 7 inches long. All my Carter keyheads are about 6".
[img]
Its painted black on the inside and bottom.
[/img]
_________________
Carters Starter, D10 8+7, SD10, Chandler RH-2, Rogue RLS-1
ISO Sustainus Ad Infinitum |
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Pat Chong
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2016 7:09 pm
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Interesting. That looks like a JCH head. I have one on my Dekley (it came that way). The intonation was off, but (using where I could make harmonics) I was able to find where the fretboard markers had to be, and the intonation is good, now.
I believe the person who put the JCH head on, wanted wider string spacing......... After I received it, however, I noticed the head was floating (1/16 inch) above the wood, being held in place by wood screws! It kept the strings parallel, but was not right. I put a piece of 1/16 inch thick stainless steel under the head and bolted the head down. It is playing and sounding properly.
By the way, do the rollers come with the head? No, wait, I see what you might do, string ends might work. Anyway, hope it works out......
.................Pat |
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