I'm so confused...

William Peters · From: Effort, Pennsylvania, USA

Well, it doesn't take much. Here's the thing... I bought an SD-10 about two years ago, and being a neophyte, had no preference for copedants. So, I got the Bob Shilling copedant. (with E string raise and lowers on left knee)

Now, I want to transition to U-12, and can't decide how I want it set up. I think I see the advantage of having the E string raise and lowers on the right knees, but that would mean I have to re-learn.

So, is it a BIG disadvantage to keep the E changes on the left knee? How would I reach pedals 4 thru 7 while my left leg is trapped between the left knee levers? Or won't I need LKR when playing B6?

How does this work, and what is your advice?

Bill
www.wgpeters.com

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

In my opinion, it would be difficult to raise and lower your E's on the left leg on a U-12 guitar and be comfortable with reaching the pedals to the right. I use the Jeff Newman setup for the U-12 but with the Emmons pedals for 12&3 and it works fine. I use to have my E's on the left when I played a single 10 string and it was no big deal to get used to the E's on the right.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

A S-10 or D-10 is a different beast from a S-12 universal. I have always lowered E's on RKL and raised on LKL, but, if I played 10-string I would seriously consider converting to 'the Emmons standard'.

I agree with the conclusion that holding LKR to convert to B6 and then trying to engage the pedals that give the C6 changes (usually 4-7 or 5- Cool

would be unnecessarily cumbersome. I have talked to uni players who do, but I would never do so myself just because I was used to a 10-string configuration with E's raised and lowered on LKL and LKR respectively. I sincerely believe that configuration works very well on a 10-string and not well at all on a universal guitar.

You may want to take a look at my website (click the link below and follow the links to PSG/Tunings and E9/B6. There are a few modifications you might find interesting -- e.g., P6 on a knee lever. Let me know by EMail if I can help.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Peter · Posted 19 Jun 2004 12:43 am

William, I found that switching kneelevers was not a problem at all. I have two different guitars with different setups and I was very surprised to discover that the adjustment is easy. I find it more difficult to relearn floorpedals than kneelevers. Obviously I have to decide which setup I finally want and set up my guitars accordingly.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Larry,
On your PP copedant, it looks like you get the P6 function on LKR (is this correct?).
Do you use LKR to get other multi pedal/lever B6th functions with your left foot?

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

On a U-12, the E lower should definitely be on the right knee. Most D-10 players have it on LKR, but that's not practical when you have 4 more inside pedals to use with it.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I have been having an internal debate about switching my minor lever to LKR and putting E lower on RKL in preparation for eventually getting a U-12 of some flavor, While keeping the D-10.

I also have seen some places I would be quite happy yo have it there now.
I don't generally go from E raise + pA to a minor lever move so that isn't lossing anything.
And since they are both essentially lowers, I would have less clams, if in the short term, I got confussed in flight, because they both seem to mirror the same pbar movements somewhat.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 June 2004 at 02:54 PM.]

William Peters · From: Effort, Pennsylvania, USA

Thanks guys for your comments. I think I will go with the E changes on the right knee levers. While I'm waiting for my new steel, I can re-rod my E9 so that I can start retraining myself... although my wife says I'm really not trainable

Is there anything terribly wrong the U-12 copedant that Carter uses?
http://www.steelguitar.com/resource/tunings/tununive.htm

Bill
www.wgpeters.com

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Pete,
Yes, I do. I can reach all pedals with LKR engaged. I use it with the A pedal for a 13th chord (E13 open), with the B pedal for an 11th chord (E11 open), with A+B or B+C for a DMa7 or Ma9 and with P4, 5, and 6 for the usual C6 changes. I don't raise B to D on the push-pull, so it's my only access to what would normally be the 9th string D on E9. Works fine for me. I let off RKL when it's engaged.

Bill,
I'd suggest putting E to F on LKL. Some do have it on RKR, but I think that the A+F combination seems more natural on LKL. Just my preference.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Yes, keep the F lever on LKL. It's the most natural place for it, for most people, since it's usually used with the first pedal.

There are advantages to having the E raise and lower on separate knees. I changed mine about 6 years ago, and I'll never go back.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

William Peters · From: Effort, Pennsylvania, USA

Bob and Larry,

Good idea. I think thats what I will do. Thanks for the suggestions.

Bill

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

I had to relearn the 'opposite situation' - moving E-F from RKL to LKL. RKR was E-Eb.

I had to retrain some instincts - it took about 2 days because it was so natural....and the added benefit of the Eb to F transition by letting off the E-Eb on RKR as you engage E-F on LKL made it particularly exciting - not a struggle whatsoever. You'll know what I mean soon.

There seem to be predictable phases in a person's PSG development. I'd guess you are entering the "find a copedant that is perfect..." phase, with the resulting further challenge of mastering steel guitar mechanics.

Don't worry about working through this. It will be one of many copedant changes you will make over the next few months as you fine tune your U12 style.

To my thinking - being able to adapt quickly to new copedants is a PSG skill in and of itself !!

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

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