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Topic: # 1 amp w/speaker in phase....# 2 amp w/speaker out of phase |
Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 16 Feb 2016 1:27 pm |
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| Does wiring one amp speaker in reverse have a unique sound when playing in stereo? Anyone tried this, and if so what was the vibe. I have two identical Tech 21 Power Engine cabs and will install Travis Toy speakers and use a Roland GP100 preamp processor. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 16 Feb 2016 6:05 pm
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I've heard a number of times that that is exactly what Jaydee Maness does. Try it. You have nothing to lose.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 16 Feb 2016 6:17 pm
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Hey, I wanted to ask a question related to this. Of course if you have two identical stereo speakers and wire them out of phase, the bass cancels and drops out.
I have my psg running through an effects unit (GT-001) then into my Carvin driving a 1504BW in a closed-back cabinet. For bigger gigs, or more fun, the effects unit has stereo out, and I can run stereo by driving my NV400 with the other output of my effects unit. The reverb sounds great in stereo, but I noticed less bass.
I took a scope, and sure enough, the Carvin is non-inverting from input jack to speaker out, but to my surprise, the NV400 is inverting! I fixed this by just swapping the speaker polarity on the NV400. I wonder if there is any standard amp manufacturers now use?
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Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 17 Feb 2016 8:29 am
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Going to try this today. Another wrinkle here! With all the gear I have and little real estate I may have to stack the Tech 21 cabs. I know it's no big deal to move stuff around for you young healthy guys, but if I stack the cabs, should I put the in phase cab on top or the other way around?
Should be an interesting experiment. Also, will not move this setup once I get it going. |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 17 Feb 2016 8:41 am
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| By accident I used 2 amps out of phase last Saturday night at a big dance. I really disliked the sound. I shut off one amp and things got better. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 17 Feb 2016 8:53 am
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A single speaker cannot be in or out of phase, since in or out of phase is a term for the relationship of one wave to another. And how far in or out of phase then changes with distance between speakers AND the frequency of the tones. It's so complicated and variable that I'd not bother with it much. Aiming the two cabs left and right a bit can get the same job done. Or try switching the one speaker that's the easiest to get to.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 17 Feb 2016 8:54 am
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The difference will be greatest with the two amps close together, and lessen with a greater distance between the two amps. Placed far enough apart, or if you're listening off-axis, you may not notice a significant difference.  |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 17 Feb 2016 11:05 am
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It's worth distinguishing between the effect the audience gets and what the player has to put up with. Out-of-phase speakers make the sound impossible to localise, so your effects sound even more novel and mysterious out in the room. But after years as an engineer learning to spot and eradicate phase errors, I would go nuts sitting in front of that all night! 
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 17 Feb 2016 4:32 pm
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Ok, I hooked up the speakers, one in phase and the other out of phase. Very interesting and (pleasing) sound. A better way to explain this is a stereo field with two different vibes blending.
If it would not harm the out of phase amp, a switch to reverse the speaker from in/out of phase to use it like an effect. Just sayin?
I'm going to leave this setup the way it is and play with it. Have not stacked it yet as I have to take the casters off one unit. Cool experiment!😎 |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 17 Feb 2016 5:53 pm
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| Len Amaral wrote: |
| If it would not harm the out of phase amp, a switch to reverse the speaker from in/out of phase to use it like an effect. Just sayin? |
As long as you make sure you use a "break-before-make" functioning switch (most switches are), phase-switching won't harm anything in the set-up.
I would rather insert a "phase shifter unit" somewhere in the pre-amp chain to shift phase to one of the power amps when you want the "out of phase" effect.
Even better, IMHO, is to put a "tunable short delay effect unit" in the chain to one of the power amps, so you can tune the phasing-effect to sort of "glide" more from one speaker to the other depending on frequency, without canceling out the lows as much as a fixed 180 degree phase-shift will do. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2016 1:34 am
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When I first got my Stereo Steel rig, I hooked the speakers up out of phase. At my first gig, I loved the sound, could not even tell where my sound was coming from, it just seemed to be everywhere in the room. But on the first break, both the club owner and sound man said I was loud as hell, and to please turn down. I put them back in phase and the problem was gone. Weird! It sounded gorgeous from where I sat.
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▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 19 Feb 2016 6:19 am
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John,
I had friend come over and he played acoustic and sang while I played the steel through the new rig. You definitely have to turn the volume down as you mentioned. It may not be that the loudness but the dispersion of the sound. I have an electronics wiz friend guitar player coming over and going to see about a switch to reverse the phase on the speaker. However, playing to tracks, I really like the sound of this setup. |
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