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Topic: question about my LKR? |
Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 3 Jun 2004 6:59 am |
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when I engage this lever the whole body of my guitar moves. I now have three pulls on this lever, 6,2, and 1. but it was doin this before I added the 2nd string raise. if I was playin on a hardwood floor, or any hard type surface, I know my whole guitar would slide at least an inch. what could be causin this? if I have to do away with this lever I will, because I don't like my guitar slidin around. this lever lowers 6, and raises 1 and 2. what can I do to fix it, if it's fixable. thanks
Terry
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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2004 7:13 am
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| Assuming this is on the D-10 LeGrande in your signature, this definitely shouldn't be happening. It sounds like the pulls are set up too short, making the pull too hard. Redo the leverages to make the throw longer and easier. |
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Peter
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Posted 3 Jun 2004 7:47 am
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I reduced a lot of movement on my guitar by tightening up the screws on the endplates, where the legs meet the body.
It reduced the wobble and now the guitar travels less.
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 3 Jun 2004 8:48 am
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Peter, I can't see any slack at all in the endplates.
Jim, yes, it's the 84 Legrand. I'm not sure I know how to do that.
I can switch to a different hole in the bellcrank. the collar is currently in the hole closest to the pivot point. I've got the 4 hole bellcrank, so I have 3 more holes I can put the collar in. what about puttin it in the 3rd hole from pivot point, or should I go to the last hole? or is this what you mean by more travel?
Terry
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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.
[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 03 June 2004 at 09:49 AM.] |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 3 Jun 2004 1:49 pm
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well, let me ask another question.
what is the best way to get that little E-clip off the collar without it shootin to the moon?
and what's the best way to get it back on? needle nose?
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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2004 3:03 pm
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Ring clip pliers available at an auto parts store works pretty good. Careful when you use them because you can inadvetently overspread them and ruin their ability to hold well.
carl |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 3 Jun 2004 4:39 pm
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Ok, I know what your talkin about. I have a pair I used to take the keeper off the spindle when packin my hubs on my 4x4. I'll probly have to get a smaller pair though. thanks Carl
Terry
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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.
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Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 5:05 am
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Terry, I believe that moving further from the crossrod would worsen your problem... yes, you'd have more movement, but it would be with less lever travel. Probably better to try changing the slot you use in the changer, get it to one with more travel for the same pull... your knee will have to move further, with less pressure, which will stop the guitar from skating across the floor.
The bellcrank hole closest to the crossrod has the most lever travel for the same amount of pull... the further away from the crank you go, the stiffer the lever will get, and the longer the pull will be.
I think the idea here is to decrease the pressure, and increase the "throw" of the lever... close to the bellcrank is doing that, a different changer hole will do likewise... |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 5:55 am
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Nicholas, I've got the lever to where it's not near as stiff. I adjusted the return spring on the 6 lower. at least now my whole guitar don't move.
my only problem now is gettin the 1st string to raise a whole tone. it will raise a half, but I can't get it to raise a whole. I have a triple raise changer, and the 1 string is in the middle hole. I tried it in the bottom hole(furtherest from changer)but it still wouldn't raise a whole tone, without screwin up my open note F#.it won't work in the top hole, it will have to be bent to clear the cross shafts and that will make it to short. please let me know if putting it in the top hole will give me more travel or less travel. if it will work in the top, I'll have to order another pull rod. thanks
Terry |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 6:00 am
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sorry, doubble posted.
Terry
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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.
[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 04 June 2004 at 07:05 AM.] |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 8:24 am
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It doesn't make very much difference which hole is used on the Changer, although the Raise-Hole fartherest from the body will have the longest travel for the same amount of Raise. The most important position is the slot/hole in the puller. On that, the position closest to the Body will have the longest travel for the same change. In other words, the (puller)–closest to the body and the (changer)–fartherest from the body=the ‘longest pedal–travel’, and also the ‘easiest movement’. (puller)–fartherest from the body and the (changer)–closest to the body=the ‘shortest pedal-travel’ and also the ‘hardest to move’.
The Lowering Return-Springs should have only enough tension to keep the Lowering portion from lifting off when a string is raised “very slowly” with a pedal or KL. Just work the pedal or KL very slowly to raise, and watch the return-spring. If it doesn't stretch, loosen the spring-tension just until it starts to lift off and then retighten about (1) complete turn at the most.
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“Big John” Bechtel
Franklin PSG D–10 (9 & 
Fender ’49–’50 T–8 Custom
Fender ’65 Reissue Twin-Reverb Custom™ 15”
click here
click here
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 8:36 am
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| I'm not familiar with the LeGrande mechanics, but if you're trying to make the lever easier, and your first string won't pull up to G#, you'll need to lengthen the throw by moving the knee lever stop. |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 8:38 am
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Thanks Big John. I have always thought the hole furtherest from the pivot point gave more travel, but if I'm understandin you right it's just the oppisite.
the collar in the bellcrank is currently in the 2nd hole (from the cross shaft or pivot point). are you sayin if I go to the next hole, closer to the cross shaft, I'll get more travel?
Jim, I can take the stop off, but there's no way to adjust it that I see. I need some kind of stop for that lever.
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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.
[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 04 June 2004 at 09:45 AM.] |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 8:57 am
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Terry:
1. The furthest hole from the crossbar gives the most travel of the pullrod.
2. The hole closest to the changer axle in the changer gives the most string travel.
3. LKL does not use screws for a forward stop. Rather it uses a nylon stop block screwed to the rear apron. So the stop is fixed.
4. However, the knee lever return stop is adjustable. In fact this is how you obtain more knee lever (and bellcrank) travel on this knee lever.
So I would suggest you do the following:
1. Start by backing off the knee lever return stop screw, see if this will give you sufficient travel to raise the 1st string a whole tone with the pull rod in the existing hole in the bellcrank.
2. If not, begin by moving the pull rod one hole further away from the crossbar.
And so on.
But remember this; the further you move the pull rod away from the crossbar, the harder it is to engage the knee lever. So best to try to obtain enough travel with the knee lever return stop adjustment. Also remember there is a trade off in knee lever travel and stiffness to engage it. And vice versa.
Finally, I am assuming you ARE talking about RKL. If you are talking about RKR that is an entirely different ballgame. Let us know, because the procedure is different between those two knee levers to gain more knee lever travel on a LeGrande.
Hope this helps,
carl |
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Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 8:58 am
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The disconnect here is: when you move the rod further from the pivot of the bellcrank, you will get more pull from the same lever travel.
More pull, with the same travel, means that you have to push harder, in terms of the force required. The term "a longer pull" was being used above to mean that you would have to push further on the lever, but it would be a softer action.
To get a given pitch change at the changer, you are balancing out the force required, against the amount of travel required. You need to reduce the amount of force required for the change, the amount of "throw"... with the same throw, a hole further from the pivot will give you more of a pitch change for the same distance of lever movement, but at the expense of the ease of pushing the lever. |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 9:10 am
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You could always tie a cement block to each guitar leg 
If the pull is too stiff you gotta increase the mechanical advantage of the linkage...
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 11:04 am
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Carl, the knee lever I'm workin on is LKR.
I don't see an adjustable stop on this lever, all I see is the allen stop screw that's screwed into the metal bracket that the lever is attached to, which stops the lever from movin to long a distance, or allowin to much throw (i reckon).that's not the adjustment your refering to is it?
it's not to stiff now, since I adjusted the return spring that lowere 6. my main problem now is gettin 1 raised a whole. what do I need to do, move it up one hole in the bell crank? if that stiffens it back up to much, can I just adjust the return screw a little more to soften it up?
thanks Carl and everbody for your help.
I'm just not mechanically minded, but I'm learnin more about these contraptions with ya'lls help.
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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 11:12 am
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Are you using a wound sixth string? If so, and you are lowering the sixth a whole tone, the return spring is being stretched to its limit, considerably increasing the force required to operate the knee lever.
R B. |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 4 Jun 2004 1:33 pm
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No, plain 22.
Where in the dog doo is the knee lever return stop screw? 
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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.
[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 04 June 2004 at 07:34 PM.] [This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 04 June 2004 at 07:36 PM.] |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 5 Jun 2004 1:12 pm
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It looks to me like you STILL have to be a mechanical engineer to play a pedal steel guitar. We are sure a special breed....al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 5 Jun 2004 10:28 pm
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Without reversing anything that I stated previously, if you move the pull-rod on the puller farther from the body, it will automatically give you a greater movement of the changer, but; it will require more pressure against the KL to make the change. Moving the pull-rod farther away from the bridge will not be of much help! About your only solution is to adjust the stop for a greater travel, once the feel of the pressure is acceptable and your guitar stops moving!
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“Big John” Bechtel
Franklin PSG D–10 (9 &
Fender ’49–’50 T–8 Custom
Fender ’65 Reissue Twin-Reverb Custom™ 15”
click here
click here
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 6 Jun 2004 6:10 pm
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Ahhhhh, that's alright guys, I'm just gonna leave my F# to G and slide up a fret like Bob suggested. 
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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.
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