E6(C6 )on E9

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

I know some are doing this but for the ones that don't yet, here are a few ideas...

Most players have the 9th string D lowered to C# on a knee lever and lower the 2nd string D# to C#.

It might be more useful in many ways, if it were reversed.

Tune the 9th string D to C# open and the 2nd string to C# open. Then pull them both up with your Knee lever to D.

You may want to pull up the 2nd string up to D# if you don't have an extra knee lever to do it, then feel for the D. That is not always satisfactory.

Bobby Seymour's Z lever has a similiar idea and that puts you into E6. He also pulls the F# up to G#.

Anyway , some of the guys have done that partially. Some tune the 2nd string C# then pull it up to D or D# on a knee lever. I think Hal Rugg is one.

While we are doing all this, If the C# is open string , why not drop the 10 string B a whole tone to A which gives you a A major7th for some nice jazzy stuff.

If you are already lowering your G# to G for that Eminor, also add that 10 string drop B to A and get a nice bottom to it for an A9.

Paul Franklin does something like this on his so called 4th pedal. So there is still lots we can do with E9, if we have enough knee levers or pedals to work with.....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Hey Al,
I tune my 2nd and 9th strings to C# and raise them both to D on my LKR. I also raise my 2nd string to D# on another lever. I play a 12 string so on my 11th string G# I raise it to A on the bottom end of the C pedal and not with the 3rd and 6th strings. This gives me that maj7 voicing you're talking about. I don't know how to post it here so I'm emailing you my setup and would appreciate any comments you have on it. Have a good 'un, JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I've been tinkering with the 2nd string tuned to C# on an S12U, as the C# is a slam dunk for 6th playing.
Also, the C# works great with G# to G lower on E9th.

1. Raise the C# to D on the same lever that used to drop it from D# to D.

2. Add C# to D# to the "A" pedal. (I really like this one for keeping the scale for A pedal minors, and the whole tone motion is nice too).

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Jerry and Pete- Good thinking guys. I know you both are good experienced players. there are "so many ways to play".....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Wayne Cox · From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.

AL, I used that setup and logic for years and always considered it to be a "common sense" approach.
I finally changed my basic E9 setup one last time by throwing away the 9th string "D" and moving the 10th up to the 9th position. I then put a G# in the 10th string position which I pull to an "A" with the B pedal. I also pull the new 9th string from B to C# with a lever which also raises string #2. This achieves pretty much the same results as your setup,but is a slightly different approach. I think this is now called "Expanded E9th". Whatever it is called, it works for me, and has for about 10 years,now. As always, I respect your wisdom and years of experience. Keep the good ideas coming!
~~W.C.~~

Bill Moran · From: Virginia, USA

I love all these good ideas, guys. Keep them coming.

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Wayne-It looks like you have already expanded your E9 tuning.
Looking good, a little different but it works for you.
Now that brings up another post, for another time....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Randy Beavers · From: Lebanon,TN 37090

I have a suggestion for the 12 string players, or anyone who has changed the back two strings like Wayne Cox has. Instead of raising the low G# to A along with the other G#'s, Raise it on the A pedal along with the B strings. You can then play the big major 7th just like you can on C6th.

Randy

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Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Randy-A very good point for anyone....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Mike Delaney · From: Fort Madison, IA

Although I've not yet changed the knee lever, I tuned the 2nd and 9th strings to C# and this really seems like the way to go. While there are certainly uses for the dominant and major 7ths, having the 6th there is really handy.

Thanks for the heads up on this. I'll be changing the knee lever as soon as I can get somebody who isn't mechanically challenged to be an observer!

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Al,

I think the 9th string D to C# change is one of the the most useful changes on the guitar. "I couldn't live without it."

That said, I still use the D note a lot more than I use the C#. It's the root of the D major 7th chord with pedals down, it's the 5th of the G with the G lever, it's the b3rd of the B minor, it's in the diminished chord with the F lever, and of course it's the b7th of E7 and E9. It's a scale note in the ii, iii, and V and vi positions.

If I tuned to C# and used a lever to get the D, I would have to be able to use it with the F, G and Bb levers. I actually have the Bb on a pedal, but the F and G are on opposite knees. I would have to grow a third knee. (No comment from Mike Perlowin, please!

)

I agree that lowering the low B to A works well with the C# on the 9th string. Since most people are putting that B to A on a pedal, it's easy to combine it with the lever that lowers D to C#. Very nice.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I have always felt the B to A move on the 10th string was needed along with the D to C# move on the 9th string.

The problem always was, where do you put it? The first real application I saw was years ago at the ISGC when Ron Elliott hit a beautiful resolve on his 4th pedal to end a song. Turns out he was doing just that. Not sure I remember exactly all the changes on that pedal, but it ended up I believe pretty much a full A6 with the A on the bottom.

I am doing something similar on the U-12. IE, most universal players raise the 9th string up to a D with a knee lever (along with lowering the 2nd string to a C# with half stop). IF the 9th string is raised to a C# with the A pedal and then that knee lever is engaged you have for all practical purposes what you have on a D-10, E9th neck.

I went a step further. Since I am also raising the 10th string to an A with the B pedal, I add to the above knee lever raising the 10th string from G# to a B*. With this I can do what Ron Elliott did without having to take my foot off A and B.

I went yet a step further. With A and B down, the bottom string is a B note. I don't want this on string 12. So I killed several birds with one stone. I added another knee lever 2nd RKR. It lowers that 12th string to an A. It also raises the 9th string to a C# and it lowers the 2nd string to a C#.

With the knee lever that lowers the 2nd string to a D, and raises 9 and 10 to a D and B respectively; along with the above knee lever, there are some great resolves that can be done, permitting full strums, all the way up from the 12th string. I cannot tell you how nice this is.

the specific changes are as follows:






   A  B     LKL2    RKR2





F#


D#            D       C#


G#     A


E


B   C#


G#     A


F#


E


B   C#        D       C#


G#     A      B


E


B                     A

Note: you might wonder why I didn't lower the 12th string to an A on the A or B pedals. The reason is; it messes up other combinations (not shown above). By putting it on the 2nd RKR, it solved all the clashes and gave me something to boot. IE:

1. A C# on string 9 still holding a B on string 5. This is worth its weight in Gold on the standard U-12 copedent.

2. A D on string 9 while holding a C# on string 2. Yet still have the D on string 2 and 9 if I wish.

3. Of course that beautiful A note on string 12.

4. A full 12 string A6th chord. If I don't use the A pedal and use B and RKR2 I get a great song ending strum with a suspended.

And last but NOT least;

4. NO half-stop on the 2nd string.

Can't tell you how great this has become in sooo many tunes I have learned "anew" since getting this guitar.

Praise our precious Savior for all his incredible blessings,

carl

* Note: I cannot take credit for this change. I saw this in an old Steel Guitarist magazine that showed a 12 string universal copedent that Buddy Emmons was experimenting with. The only difference is; he was doing it in reverse.

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