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Topic: Vintage PSGs |
Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 4 May 2004 8:26 am |
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Is there a market for vintage PSGs like there is a market for vintage six string electrics? So far I've seen messages raving about the following brands and models on the SGF:
Emmons push/pull
Sho-Bud fingertip and Professional series
Fender 400/800 1000/2000? series (I'm not sure if I have the numbers right, but they are the Fender guitars with the cable mechanism)
MSA Classic series (particularly lacquer finish models)
ZB Custom
Also, does the same rule apply to PSGs as it does to six string electrics - i.e. if the guitar is totally original and not refinished, its collector's value will be higher than a modified guitar?
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 4 May 2004 9:26 am
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| I'll speak to the Fenders. Currently they are fairly available and inexpensive, although prices are climbing. My all original 1958 1000, in good condition, was $600 three years ago. If only it was a Strat it would probably be worth 30 times that! Most modern players do not find them desirable due to primitive mechanics, but some players seek them out for their unique tone and retro vibe. They are not really what you would call collectible, in the vintage guitar sense. Folks like me buy them to play. I think a nicely re-finished specimen might be just as desirable, or more so, than a beat up all-original. |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 4 May 2004 10:20 am
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Guitars made in the 1950's were fundamentally the same as guitars made today. To a player, they are interchangable.
In contrast, every pedal steel made today is mechanically superior to every pedal steel made in the 1950's. If you learned to play on a modern steel, you have to give up something to play a 50's steel. They aren't as playable, so maybe that's why they aren't as collectable.
The Emmons push-pull is the earliest design that is still in general use today. Lots of people like them, but they still don't sell for more than a modern professional pedal steel.
The market for pedal steels is based more on playability than collectability. People want to play the fully developed modern copedents. The early pedal steels can't support the changes required, so they don't command the price.
If the 50's Telecaster only had 5 strings, it wouldn't be nearly as collectable today.
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
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Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 4 May 2004 10:39 am
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| My understanding is that there's also a large "pure collector" market for Fender gear (six guitars and old amps at least...)in Japan that has driven the prices up worldwide... maybe just a myth, but they certainly are impossibly expensive. |
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Dave Van Allen
From:
Doylestown, PA , US , Earth
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Posted 4 May 2004 10:54 am
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| Quote: |
| If the 50's Telecaster only had 5 strings, it wouldn't be nearly as collectable today. |
except to Kieth Richards  |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 5 May 2004 6:06 am
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Well said b0b, but your comments are about Pedal Steels (yes I know that's the title of this section).
For non-Pedal, the 50s instruments are every bit as good, but still remain low priced.
My pristine 59 Stringmaster is worth appox what an equivalent new instrument would cost. If it was a Tele I wouldn't be able to afford it.
I believe these old instruments are way under priced, and will remain that way until popular styles change. (if ever)
I remember in the 70s when old Teles were stacked three deep at 48th Street music stores in NYC. Their cases were worth more than the guitars.
DVA, I was thinking the same thing.
Keith removes his low E string. He says it's a useless appendage. That's my favorite string. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 5 May 2004 3:00 pm
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I think pedal steels are more like cars than six-string guitars. You want your '50s car restored for good looks, even if it doesn't drive as well as a modern car. Same with an old Sho-Bud. An Emmons p/p is like a '70s muscle car. Sure, you want the looks restored (how hard is that for a formica finish), but what's the point if it doesn't have that performance (the sound!). Yep, pedal steels are like cars.  |
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Joerg Hennig
From:
Bavaria, Germany
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Posted 7 May 2004 12:58 pm
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I tend to agree with David D. as I like to compare upgrading a vintage Sho~Bud with modern mechanics to putting a modern engine into a vintage car. Sure the performance would be improved, but something special would get lost. There were only so many of them built and with every "upgrade" an original gets lost. Another car story - many years ago I was enthusiastic about the old Mercedes SE coupes from the early ´60s (even had one for a short time)- there were less than 10.000 built, very few are still around. It was kind of a fashion among those who could afford it to have them converted into cabriolets. I felt the same way about that - on each cabriolet the beautiful panoramic rear windscreen and the silhouette that made it special would get lost. Can you dig it. Now, this is just my personal opinion, I know many will disagree. And then, part of the reason why I want to keep the mechanics original is that I concentrate on a kind of music that had it´s heyday at the time when those guitars were built. It just seems the right thing to keep it original and take care of it that way. If I were into more recent styles of steel playing, I´d probably buy a modern guitar.
Regards, Joe H. |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 7 May 2004 6:11 pm
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| Quote: |
| but something special would get lost. |
Gentlemen, I must respectfully disagree, up to a point. I have a number of vintage guitars and the rule here is, if it's all original and reasonably restorable, then I leave it alone. If, however, it's a "basket case" then I feel that I have carte blanche.
Now the whole point in having one of those guitars is because of the uniqueness of what they look like and sound like. Two of mine, in particular, a Sho-Bud Professional and a '59 S-10 Bigsby pedal guitar were so hacked-up when I got them, they both required a complete redo.
The main componants, where they get their sound is the body, pickup and the changer/neck/keyhead assembly. So I kept the "bird-cage" changer on the Prof. and completey redid the mechanicals underneith. I also did some other things to it and it's been my main guitar for over 10 years now.
I have a lot more reservations about changing anything on a Bigsby. This one had been so mangled that even the fingers had been cut in half, with a hack saw, and were attached to a Sho-Bud bird-cage changer with bent-over nails, Needless to say, it didn't work so good, nope. So I spent several days on the drafting table with a calculator, to get the geometry right (I didn't want to cut the body at all), where I could weld a small tab on the aluminum finger bottom that would attach to a small stainless tab that I welded on the top of the bird-cage changer. The rest of the mechanicals underneith are mine and I now have a Bigsby with 6 peds and 4 knees that plays like a modern guitar yet still has the original Bigsby sound.
I would post the pics, but I don't have that ability as of yet. |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 7 May 2004 7:15 pm
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| The prices of the gear that Leslie mentioned tell the story. It gives me a thrill to sit down at a nice old p/p, and I keep looking at the Fingertip Bobbe has for sale and enjoying the view. And I drool over some of the ZB's I see for sale. But there can't be many collectors of those instruments, because they are all very affordable in the scheme of the World. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 7 May 2004 9:36 pm
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I play a 1964 Emmons D-10, #1264018. This is the 18th serialized Emmons guitar. It has a red belly and 8 knee levers, though when it was created it had no knee levers and different pickups.
No one has ever come up to me and said, "nice old horn. Too bad it got hacked up with all those levers."
Several guys have come up and said, "when you want or need to sell that guitar, call me. I'll have however many bucks you want for it."
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 May 2004 1:18 pm
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Steel guitars don't have the collector value of other items, but they do retain their value. I can probably sell any of my old guitars for what I paid for them, not bad when you consider how much they've been used. Personally, I've always considered pedal guitars a little more akin to a machine, or complicated tool, than a musical instrument, due to their complexity. I can't explain the high prices for old Fenders, Gibsons, and Martins, other that to hazard a guess that they've become "status symbols" for many players and collectors.
To me, it ain't what you play, but how>/i> you play it, that counts! |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 12 May 2004 10:31 pm
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| How about $100mil for a Picasso painting. |
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