right hand speed/banjo rolls

Nate LaPointe · From: Los Angeles, California, USA

I've seen posts on the forum about right hand technique, but my question is specifically about right hand speed. Are there banjo techniques that can help playing some bluegrass stuff on the steel? I know some things, like T,1,2,T,1,2,T,2 but what do I do with the chords/pedals?

Winnie Winston · From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ * R.I.P.

Having been a banjo player for a good part of my musical life, and being a pretty fast one at that (someone told me many years ago that my right hand was "blinding") I must say that I never figured out how to use ANY of my banjo techniques on steel. Part of is that your hand is in a completely different position.
I just left the whole thing alone. I learned a few things from Jimmie Crawford mostly working on string 1-5-- with LOTS happening on strings 1&2.

However, I must say that I did take stuff from steel and use it well on the banjo-- mostly a better understanding of moving chords and voicings.

JW

Larry Clark · From: Herndon, VA.

One of the better examples of "Bluegrass rolls" type steel I've heard was from Doug Jernigan. He covers a bit of it on his E9 Speedpicking video. I don't know if he has any written instructional materials dedicated to it however. You might try an e-mail. http://www.digndoug.com/

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I use lots of ersatz (banjo?) rolls in my speed picking. (It's the only way I can do over 10 notes per second.) Most of my rolls are of the "closed-chord" variety, but I have noticed that most steelers who have played banjo use a lot more open-string variations. Different strokes for different folks, I guess!

I find that Ralph Mooney-type pedal actions are particularly useful with my style.

Sometimes I use a wood bar, or a Bic pen, lighter, or even a comb to more closely approximate the timbre and limited sustain of a banjo. All I can say is it works for me.

Jeff Hogsten · From: Flatwoods Ky USA

Listen to Jimmie Crawford, Ill never forget when I heard him play foggy mountain breakdown the first time, hes the king if you wonder how he does it he pulls his second string up to e and rocks off of it and plays 2 4 and 3 I noticed Winnie has a post on here, I think he may have worked with him on a manual of steel if not he may know how to get one, it has a great intro he did on a song he called new joe clark which was really old joe clark

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

On the steel guitar, we play steel guitar rolls. I refuse to use the B word when talking about steel guitar techniques.

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Jeff Hogsten · From: Flatwoods Ky USA

I guess guitar players with b benders should quit refering to the licks they do with them as steel licks

Jeff

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Here's a speed lick that sounds like the classic intro to FMB.
I think Buddy used in a old TV theme song.

AB Pedals Down
Pick strings: 2, 4, 2, 4, 3, 2, 4, 3 (repeat many times)

The bar can be on whatever fret you need for the key.
Use the middle finger on string 2, Index on 3, thumb on 4.

Start slow and work it up to mm=140.

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 02 May 2004 at 05:55 PM.]

Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

Besides Mr.Emmons, another Buddy (Cage) did those things now and then. A classic example is "Teardrops In My Eyes" from the New Riders´"The Adventures Of Panama Red". You can do some nice things like that in E and A using open strings along with the tip of the bar, and once you get the hang of it, maybe even find some positions higher on the neck. But, like b0b, I would rather call them "steel rolls", to me it´s not really the same sound like a b...., but rather a part of steel guitar technique.

Regards, Joe H.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Nate LaPointe · From: Los Angeles, California, USA

Thanks everybody, for the steel roll ideas. I'm having fun working up a new technique in my right hand.

John Sluszny · From: Brussels, Belgium

Joey,Bobby,Nate.Another pattern:
2 4 2 4 3 4 1 4 (with & without A&B)

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Does anybody know of a steel player that has "foggy mt breakdown" tabed out, with
backup track, or just tabed out?
Terry

joe wright · From: Jackson, Michigan

Joey Ace's little pattern should be seen as two alternate moves and then a forward roll starting on the first finger...



1-


2- 2     2


3-       


4-    T      T

above is the first part a 2/t alternate movement with the right hand in a 0.0 grip in the 4th position. (T=thumb, 1=first finger, 2=second finger)



1-


2-       2


3-  1          1


4-          T

Then you make the above movement which can be seen as a 1/2 alternate and the a T/1 alternate or a forward roll starting on the first finger and returning to the first finger.

all together it looks like this...



1-


2- 2     2           2


3-                1             1


4-    T      T            T

My book My Approach to Pedal steel has tons of movements. You can also train your hand with my DVD#1 which breaks everything down into numbered movements. Then you just execute the moves you need and the resulting sound will be there.

This also directly relates to the consistency thread I read about. IF YOU WANT CONSISTENCY DO DRILLS not LICKS. Technique Bundle takes care of those problems.

Of course it's a matter of doing the work...later...joe

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Joe W. speaks the truth!
I've studied Joe's methods extensively and am glad I did.

Many times I encounter a comerical lick I need to learn, and Joe's method of breaking it into seperate movements is what I do.

I also remember Joe holding up his two hands and saying, "You've got to earn these. No amount of money will buy them for you." So true. You have to do the work.

Here's how I think of the lick I described above:



_______|______________________________________


__(0)__|________0____________0____________0___


_______|_________________0B__________0B_______


_______|__0__________0___________0____________





 (M)     T     M    T   I   M    T   I     M

The first note is only played once, that's why I wrote it as (0). The phrase gets repeated many times. Notice the last note is the same as the first, that's why the first is only needed once.

To use Joe's technique of breaking it up, I learn the first three notes, then do a forward roll (T, I, M) twice.

Somehow, thinking of "forward rolls" makes it easier to play fast.

Also the fact that no left hand is being used is part of Joe's "isolation" technique. Once you learn the right hand you can add the bar.

Thanks Joe. See ya Sunday.

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 06 May 2004 at 04:26 PM.]

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

Joe's "My Approach" book is exhaustive in every sense of the word- there are TONS of things that really get you approaching the instrument from every angle. Just don't hurt yourself, pace yourself, and refer back to it often, and it is a sure fire way to improve both your technical skills and your mental vision of the instrument- the pedal and lever functions, etc. etc.

Great stuff, Joe!

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