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Topic: Replace Pull Release with All Pull? |
Raphael McGregor
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 11:16 am |
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Hi all,
I've got a Marlen D-10 that I've been struggling with mechanically for some time now. It think best case scenario it will take a lot of work and a lot of replacement parts to become fully functional. I saw a youtube video of Rich Burton playing a Marlen that he said he had replaced with an all-pull system, which sounds like a great idea to me. How would that work--could someone make me an all-pull system for a D-10, send it to me, and I could install it myself? The other great thing about this would be that then if anything breaks down there are lots of people around me who can fix an all-pull, whereas it seems to be harder to find people who know how to deal with the pull-release. How much should I expect to pay for something like that?
Thanks and Happy Holidays,
Raphael |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 1:18 pm
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| never played a Marlen P/R but I think they're known to be one of those "tone to the bone" guitars with their own thing going on which is probably connected with it's pull release changer. Not sure I'd want to swap that. You might check in with Paul Redmond, he's a whiz with these guitars. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 1:20 pm
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There are a lot of variables. Perhaps you should send Richard a PM and ask him to chime in here on how the one you mention was done.
How you would approach a conversion like that would depend a lot on what you're starting with. Can you post some pictures of the changer from above and below? Any machinist can make new parts, but you may or may not want to have to modify other parts of the guitar to make it all work, so how you design the mod will have a big effect on how easy it is to install (and how much it will cost).
You might be able to modify the existing fingers with an opposing pivot style setup similar to a ZB or early 70s Sho-Bud. Converting to a more modern scissor style finger with the pivot closer to the axle would likely require cutting a larger aperture in the top deck for clearance and possibly modifications to the upper changer axle mount. To me, the best solution would have most or all the mods under the guitar. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 2:37 pm
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| IMHO, it would be a whole lotta work and money, and when you finished, you'd still just have a modified Marlen. You'd probably be better off to sell it and put the money towards a better (all pull) guitar, one with a good name. Pull-release Marlens have a few devotees, and I own one myself, but the reason I never bothered to finish restoring mine is the same reason I recommend you don't sink a lot of effort in yours. In their day, they were cheap, nice looking guitars, but that's about all the "nice" I can say about them. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 3:24 pm
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I have an old pull-release D10 by an unknown maker. The best thing about it is the sound, and although I've added E raises and lowers (which it lacked) I suspect that to modernise it too much would be to destroy its only virtue.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 3:24 pm
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that P/R Marlen you have probably just needs some adjustment... they are well built steels, and there is not much to wear in that mechanism.. I own one and have seen others up close.. they are stout.. Main problem with a P/R Marlen is guys making adjustments the wrong way and screwing them up...Once a P/R marlen is set up, lubed and tuned, they stay that way pretty much forever, until you start screwing with it...
If you like that steel, it might make sense to have it adjusted properly by a person that knows how.. There are several on the forum... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 3:27 pm
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I should have mentioned its secondary virtue, that it stays in tune forever.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 6:19 pm
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| seems to me you would do well to try to pick up a fully functional used inexpensive all pull guitar. start playing it regularly, but get the miller into shape for at least playing at home. |
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Raphael McGregor
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 8:05 pm
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| Thanks! As always, I really appreciate all the replies and suggestions. As some of you say, the best thing about it is the sound, which is really fantastic...but I do feel that someone messed with this guitar in an unfavorable way. It appears to have some elements of a Day setup, but some of the changes make no sense at all to me, I can't even tell what they would be attempting to make. I will try to post some pics of the undercarriage. |
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Raphael McGregor
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 8:20 pm
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 9:08 pm
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Same setup as mine.. Very stout and trouble free once set up, and it will stay in tune forever... You don't say where you live... Its worth getting it set up properly if you like the guitar.. Once its dialed in it will stay that way for years... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 1:26 am
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Raphael,
The Marlen in my youtube video was modified to an all-pull by fellow steel player Will Cowell, who brought it to me for a final few 'tweaks'.
If you are determined enough, you should be able to source an All-Pull changer mechanism, but it's an awful lot of work to install it, especially when the Pull-Release mechanism that your Marlen already has looks perfectly serviceable, it probably just needs setting up.
Once it is set up, the tuning stability is excellent.
My regular go-to steel is also a Marlen pull-release (see some of my other videos) which was complete basket case when I got it.
They're not too difficult to set up, just tell us what your specific problems with the steel are, accompanied by photos, and between all of us we should have you up and running in no time  |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 3:11 am
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I second and third you getting the Marlen to someone to set it up properly. You would not be disappointed.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Raphael McGregor
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 5:12 am
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Wow, thanks for all the enocuragement! Ok, so what specifically should I send to you guys, should I make a schematic drawing of some kind and post it, or pictures, or what?
Thanks so much! |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 6:11 am Wow...
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| What a beautiful machine... With a minimum of care it would last for years and almost nothing sounds as good as a well set up and played pull/release Marlen... Just my opinion, I would trade or sell it and get an all/pull steel if that is what I wanted. Butcher it, never! Again, just my opinion. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 8:10 am
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| Raphael McGregor wrote: |
Wow, thanks for all the enocuragement! Ok, so what specifically should I send to you guys, should I make a schematic drawing of some kind and post it, or pictures, or what?
Thanks so much! |
you were considering replacing the entire pull system to all pull.. A massive undertaking and probably expensive in the extreme...
For probably a couple hundred bucks, any of the fine techs on this forum would do a complete setup and adjustment. I suppose it depends on where you live. There may be someone within driving distance that would do it.. Owning a Marlen with the same mechanics as yours I could do it no problem , but I would bet you are not very close by..
If you are mechanically capable and understand pedal steel mechanics you can probably learn it enough to do it yourself.. I do realize that many players don't have that capability, so I may be off base, but I knew NOTHING about the P/R system, and still managed to learn it and not fear it any longer. It just depends on how comfortable you are with disassembling a steel guitar pull system. That is a GOOD steel guitar, and if you like it, spend a couple hundred and have it set up by a pro[or a good amateur]... There are lots of them on this forum... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 12:47 pm
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While specific info on pull-release guitars is scarce, it's not hard to translate push-pull advice into pull-release. The push-pull uses a separate half of the finger to handle the releases, but the lowering rod of a pull-release does much the same.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 6:00 pm
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Please don't mess up a nice old guitar. Either get it right or sell it and buy a Carter or something.
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I need an Emmons! |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 8:10 pm
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If it has great tone don't mess with it. I personally would settle for more tone and less changes/pulls....tone is everything! IMHO of course... 
I have a few pull/release guitars that need setting up myself...if I only had the time...
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 26 Dec 2015 9:00 am
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John widgren can help set your guitar up right. He is local to you and great at what he does.
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Bob |
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