| Author |
Topic: What Do You Tell The Guitar Player? |
Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 9:26 am |
|
At times I play with a local group that are all just fine folks. The guitar player is a friend of mine and has been for many years and is a fine person but he just plays all the time. If I'm trying to play backup, he's just playing right along. If I'm taking a ride, he's just playing right along and louder than me I might add. It makes for a miserable night. When he's playing, I can't tell what I'm playing. If anyone comes up to sing and just names any song, he's already kicking it off and the band has to catch up, even Farewell Party, LOL.
I've hesitated to say anything to him because I know how he is. What do you do? Just thinking about quitting them altogether to keep so to say, the peace, but I enjoy playing and not many gigs in this area.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
|
|
 |
Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 9:37 am
|
|
Sadly this is all too common in amateur bands. I'm not sure why it happens but I suspect that, as hobbyists, these players so look forward to their occasional gigs that they're determined to make the most of it.
In the process, of course, they reduce everything to a mediocre level.
I don't take local gigs for this reason and the chances of an unknown band being the exception to the rule are too remote for me to take the risk.
Henry, I think you should take the bull by the horns and speak to him about it. Who knows? If he listens and hears what you're suggesting he may experience an epiphany and find out just how much fun true ensemble playing can be.
Any well-produced Nashville recording demonstrates the 'less is more' principle. He should study them more carefully.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
---------------------------------- |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 10:01 am
|
|
I had this problem with an amateur guitar player who played exactly the same whatever else was going on - not badly, just the same, strumming away on a nice old Martin.
I suggested to him (putting my ex-producer's hat on so it sounded like his idea) that if when I was soloing he just picked single notes out of the chords, it would make an interesting contrast. He was grateful for the instruction and has been as good as gold ever since.
YMMV
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 10:06 am
|
|
Wait for a very glaring example of his overplaying...turn your amp off, go grab a beer, join the audience, then collect your pay at the end of the night. When your buddy asks you, "what's up?" Take him to school about sharing air space.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
|
|
|
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 10:21 am Re: What Do You Tell The Guitar Player?
|
|
| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| The guitar player is a friend of mine and has been for many years and is a fine person but he just plays all the time. |
Friends can be honest with each other. Chances are he doesn't realize how loud he is, or how much he's hogging the available musical space. I'm often guilty of such sins myself, and always appreciate constructive criticism that will make other players more comfortable and make the band sound better.
I doubt that any sincere criticism will escalate into an argument or even generate bad feelings in the band. Band members need to be honest with each other. It's not good to keep things bottled up inside and then quit for reasons that were never vocalized. We had a keyboard player do that to us last year. We thought that the band sounded great, then all of sudden there's an "I quit" email with a list of grievances. All of the them were things we could have fixed if we had talked about them.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
|
|
|
Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 10:37 am
|
|
| Always a delicate case, but if you cannot talk to your friend about the problem he seems to be the only one who can solve, then who else? |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 10:40 am
|
|
"Hey man, can we split the breaks and fills between us?"
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Steve Allison
From:
Eatonton,Ga. U.S.A.
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 10:42 am
|
|
| Great advice all. Bring a portable DVD player to the gig with a disc of a pro band with guitar, fiddle, steel, and piano, in it and get everyone in the band to watch and listen to it. Then while its playing say, WOW it sure is nice and PROFESSIONAL when each instrument lets the other one have their turn. "Just listen how great we could be!" |
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 11:34 am
|
|
I find that it's best to talk with the band leader, unless you are the band leader, and then you should be able to talk to him in that role. What I always explain to a band leader is, if it's my turn to play, and I hear another instrument jumping in there, I stop playing. I let them hog it all they want. Then it's the leader's decision if they want me to play or the other instrument. I refuse to do battle with other instruments.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
|
|
|
Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 12:09 pm
|
|
| Steve Allison wrote: |
| Great advice all. Bring a portable DVD player to the gig with a disc of a pro band with guitar, fiddle, steel, and piano, in it and get everyone in the band to watch and listen to it. Then while its playing say, WOW it sure is nice and PROFESSIONAL when each instrument lets the other one have their turn. "Just listen how great we could be!" |
I was going to suggest something like that. Show him a positive example and use it as an illustration of how you collectively could sound better. If he refuses to take the clue, then it's no longer ignorance, it's deliberate and that can be dealt with accordingly. |
|
|
|
Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 12:40 pm
|
|
Shall i fill the verse or you?.....Or shall we leave it blank? If i play you hush, when you play, I hush, but....We don't both play unless it's a harmonized line!! Call him to the table Hen 
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
|
|
|
Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 1:02 pm
|
|
Thanks for all the input guys. The trouble is that this player knows better because I've heard him comment on our Opry band by saying, listen to these guys, they don't walk on each other. I think I will drop the ball and say, hey, let me play and then you can play, steel kicks off steel songs and you can kick the rest off. Don't play on my rides and I don't play on yours. He may just say, oh ,ok and then he may swell up and not speak for a couple weeks, oh well.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
|
|
|
Jeff Bollettino
From:
Virginia, USA
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 2:07 pm
|
|
I liked Mike's approach
| Mike Neer wrote: |
| "Hey man, can we split the breaks and fills between us?" |
|
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 3:06 pm
|
|
here is something I have done in the past , and the message was sent very fast...after many frustrating outings...
during the next break where he steps all over you, stop playing, just look at him and say " you play all the solo's".
This is all too common with good players who are terrible musicians who think they are great musicians. He will probably say that he was adding accents to your phrases. They just can't stop plinking...
What he really is doing is being the lead guitar player and protecting his lead guitar turf and he really has no understanding or respect for Steel guitar players and what they may be playing. The nuances, the moving phrases etc. He is not listening to the Steel.
I am a guitar player, I know what I am talking about here.
Until we learn to shut up we just do not know when to shut up !
Splitting solo's is not the answer, shutting the heck up is .
I'm beginning to hate guitar players and I are one !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 4:02 pm
|
|
| Mike Neer wrote: |
| "Hey man, can we split the breaks and fills between us?" |
sure man, ...what's that? |
|
|
|
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 4:13 pm
|
|
Things I have said to other players in bands I play with:
Hey Man, When we play together, it is supposed to be a "Musical Conversation"...
When you talk, I listen.
When I talk, you listen.
It's not a "Conversation" if one of us is talking all the time.
If you are playing all the time, we are not having a "musical conversation".
The only people who are supposed to play from the beginning to the end of evey song, are the drummer and the bass player, maybe also the rhythm strummer if there is one.
One of us will play the intro, and then from then on we take turns playing fills/turn-arounds/solos, ect.
When you play fills or solo, I am not even going to touch my instrument.
When I play Fills or solos, please play long-ringing open chords at a volume that is about 50% of my volume.
Friend, you don't have to stop playing, but you do need to reduce the amount of time that sound is coming out of your amp by 50%.
Concerning your stage volume, Nobody should hear you louder than you hear you. Can you please point your speaker at your upper body so you can hear your volume?... Because, I don't think you realize it, but you are giving us permanent hearing damage over here.
We don't want anybody in the band or audience to have to wear earplugs to hear us play...
And we don't want anybody in the band or audience to have a ringing in their ears after hearing us play.
I'm sure I'll think of others. |
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 4:42 pm
|
|
| did they appreciate the lesson? |
|
|
|
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 4:50 pm
|
|
Yes...
They always thanked me for helping them, and most often say... "Wow, I had no idea".
"If your ears were on the back of your calfs, your amp placement would be perfect."
'Love that one!
I most recently showed a famous Ray Price concert to a fiddle player who would not stop noodlin'.
A good way to get better is to play with people who are better than you.
Right?...
Right.
I usually start by saying...
"Hey Man, I need to talk to you about making the band sound better..."
Who doesn't want the band to sound better??? |
|
|
|
Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 4:55 pm
|
|
Case in point… sort of…
A few months back I was at a club and there were a few bands playing a couple tunes each.
Playing guitar with Teresa James (a wonderful singer, btw…) was Dean Parks, who is royalty in the LA studio scene. During a section of the tune that was fairly quiet - a verse I suppose - Dean was just laying back and letting the vocal do it's thing…exactly as one should do.
The person I was watching with leaned over to me and said, "I can't hear Dean."
I replied, "Yeah, but what you're not hearing is perfect".
There you go... |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 5:27 pm
|
|
| chris ivey wrote: |
| Mike Neer wrote: |
| "Hey man, can we split the breaks and fills between us?" |
sure man, ...what's that? |
If that's his response, then there are much bigger problems!
It is funny, though, that I have come across a few who don't understand such basic concepts until it is pointed out to them. I learned a lot of musical cues when I was young because I played with people who were older and more experienced than me.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Jay Dee Maness
From:
North Hills, CA
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 5:32 pm When to play and when not tp play
|
|
| This is part of what I will talk about in my Dallas steel class in March. |
|
|
|
Steve Allison
From:
Eatonton,Ga. U.S.A.
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 6:32 pm
|
|
| Jay Dee I also ask ELECTRIC lead guitar players to just play lead and not rhythm. Bob McNett and Sammy Pruit were perfect examples of what and when to play during those old Hank songs. Leon and Buddy Charleton too! We should all go back to the basics. Look how many instruments were in The Texas Playboys and Brazos Valley Boys. I have the same problems sometimes with some groups I play with. When fuzz and distortion runs all the way through a song like a buzz saw, I'm through. I ask the star singer why he would pay to have an instrument in the band that can't be heard? That usually takes care of the problem. |
|
|
|
Lee Dassow
From:
Jefferson, Georgia USA
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 6:53 pm
|
|
What Mike said! Straighten him out Henry. Tell him you want to split the breaks, and you want to play the bridges for some contrast. After all your getting paid too. Tenn.Lee P.S.Forget what I said If he's the one that runs the band.
_________________
2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars, |
|
|
|
Tom Quinn
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 7:29 pm
|
|
I just invite said guitar player out to the parking lot to see my new car and tell him if he doesn't chill those tires will leave a mark on his ugly face. You need to say it with sincerity but it always works.
Next: bass players bird dogging my date...
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
|
|
|
Jim Park
From:
Carson City, Nv
|
Posted 21 Dec 2015 7:54 pm
|
|
| Henry, My take on your situation is this: you have no band leader, if you did, this problem wouldn't happen. If the band leader can't see the problem, then it is gonna be difficult to fix. I understand your frustration, I think I would talk to whoever booked the gig and voice your complaint. I have the same problem with one of the bands I work with. |
|
|
|
