Better tone..old or new steels???

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

As much as I prefer to PLAY modern steels due to to mechanical,tuning,action, and weight considerations, I must say, I just don't feel they sound as sweet to my ears as the great old steel guitars of the 60's. No matter what brand ,the old steels just had a more musical and "juicier" tone.. I can't explain it... maybe its the 7-8 k pickups,maybe the all tube amps with old D series JBL speakers, maybe the all analog recording of years past ,,,I dunno but when I hear an OLD pedal steel on record ,tape disc or radio, my ears swivel around to pick up the vibes like a deers do... well kind of... I love todays steels and steelers for sure, but they don't stir my soul the way an old Fender ZB or Bud does..... I guess I'm just an anachronism unable to live in todays high tech world... nothing sounds, feels ,tastes or looks right to me anymore.... I dunno......

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Y'know I used to think that way myself -- the vintage guitars just seemed to sound much better.

Recently, I had the opportunity to compare three recordings made over 15 years or so, playing an original instrumental tune on a 1980 ZumSteel, a 1969 Emmons, and a 2003 Fessenden. They all sounded just like ME and there was very little difference among them. Only thing in common was a single coil pickup in each, but the overall sound was very similar. My theory is that an experienced player will try to make any guitar sound like the sound he/she hears in their head. If the player is skillful and the guitars are similar enough to start with, they will all sound pretty much the same. Obviously, if you like a Franklin sound and have a Fender guitar you may not succeed, but many guitars built today sound remarkably alike. I like to play guitars that are already close to the sound I'm going for without too much work.

Now . . . after I've said all that, my favorite sounding guitars are P/P Emmons, ZB, and Sho-Bud -- AND I think my Fessy has many of the attributes of those sounds.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Gary Preston · From: Columbus, Ohio, USA

Larry , I think that you have said it all . You hit every nail on the head . Amen to the ''push-pull'' and Sho-buds . Regards,,,Gary .

Tim Rowley · From: Pinconning, MI, USA

I think Larry's on the right track. A lot of it is the player. To my ears, nothing sounds better than a fine "vintage" player on a classic old steel through a good modern amp. There are a number of examples like Don Helms and Kayton Roberts. All right, case in point: yesterday afternoon at D.J.'s in Farwell MI, Shirley Colvin with her very experienced band the Troubadours, playing her old beat-up crossover Sho-Bud through my new Peavey NV 1000 for over 2 hours. The tone she got was just unbelievable. It was far and away the best tone I ever heard her get with that guitar. The crowd was just kinda "in awe". When she finally got off the bandstand she said "I'm a-gonna hafta get me an amp like that". I could have listened to her play all day long.

Tim Rowley

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

I think engineers are mixing the steel much brighter these days, which I don't like. I was told this is so it can be heard in the more complex mixes we have today. I don't care for it.

bob

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

Bob, the old music sounds better to me, too, especially the Bakersfield players Brumley, Mooney, et al. A few years ago I moved from my T8 Stringmaster to a Fender 1000 (11k on the pickups), because I wanted to get some of those early pedal sounds and still keep the vintage Fender sound. This is the sound that works best for me in my, admittedly retro, style of playing.
I've tried some modern guitars, but none of them gave me that distinctive Fender twang. Last year when we opened for Asleep at the Wheel, Big Jim Murphy told me he could tell it was a Fender 1000 just by the sound (in fact he offered to buy it from me). The down side is, I can't really get the 1000 to sound like a modern PSG, but I can live with that. Through my Twin (re-issue), with a D130-F, it's pretty much dead-on the sound I want. I think you'd be surprised how mechanically well it works, too.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

This is exactly why I play a ZB Custom D-10. For me the retro sound is where its at and I couldn't get it out of a modern guitar.

Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

This has been said before, but... the sound that you get is a product of ALL parts involved. It starts in the player´s mind, then the hands, then the guitar, the individual way it is constructed (the way the changer is mounted to the body, among others), the pickups, last but not least the amp. True what Larry said, an experienced player will always get his/her sound on about everything, but there always will be subtle variations. There is NO way of getting a Peavey amp to sound exactly like a vintage Fender tube amp. The question if it sounds "better" depends a lot on what you personally like best. If you like the old time steel sounds better that the modern stuff (I say that about myself) and have "that sound" in your head, you will naturally be inclined more towards the vintage equipment. But I think it would be a mistake to believe that ALL vintage steels sounded great, just as there are exceptional ones built today. As we say over here,
"Even back then they used to cook just with water"

Regards, Joe H.

[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 20 April 2004 at 11:16 AM.]

Chris Schlotzhauer · From: Colleyville, Tx. USA

I think green steels have the best tone

Allan Thompson · From: Scotland.

Only if Lloyd is sitting behind them.

Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

Yeah, and black ones play the fastest
But the red-blondes are the SWEETEST by far

JH

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I play a BMI U-12 now but I really miss my old ShoBud S-12 a bunch. I'd replaced the pickup in '78 with an Emmons P/U and for my money it was the best sounding steel around. The guitar just became a mechanical wreck over the years. I wish I'd known of Ricky Davis or Bobbe Seymore or some of the other fine steel repair and refurbish folks. I think I'd have been better off to redo the old 'bud. My BMI is a very fine guitar but I was listening to some 20 some odd year old recordings of me with me on steel and my tone today just don't come near to what I got on the 'bud. The ShoBud had the wider string spacing and the Emmons pup, who knows, maybe that's what did it....JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I don't hear a difference based on age. Some old steels sound really crappy, and others sound great. Many new steels sound great, too. There aren't too many new steels that sound bad. I think that the industry knows what it's doing today, where there was a lot more experimentation in the 50's through the 70's.

The differences are in the individual instruments, regardless of age. Lloyd Green's former JCH, John Hughey's Zumsteel and Buddy Emmons' LeGrande III are all spectacular sounding instruments to my ears.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

My first real PSG is a ShoBud Professional D10 8/4 and i really like the warm sound it has even tho' it may be archaic "compared to what ?"
since bein'on the forum and diggin'all the great horns, sounds, comments and all: i ended up gettin'(by luck)a Zum D10 9/7 on ebay

(formally owned by a FoBro

)
So now i've got both - an oldster and a newbie - well as much as i dig this Zum, i just gotta say that my Ol'Bud sounds better (to me) even tho'it's got less power under the hood
Bottom line: Get one of each

Old and New
or get a Fulawka

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 20 April 2004 at 01:56 PM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I do think there's a difference in the old and new. The old ones have an appealing "woody" sound (except for the old Emmons' and Fenders), and the newer steels have a fuller sound with more sustain. Each has their own personality, and while I like the mechanical precision, versatility, and sustain of the newer models, there is something to be said for the old "limited sustain" and "woody" characteristics of the older models.

To me, the Emmons popularized a highly metallic sound, kinda like a Fender, only moreso...with a lot more sustain. Those sounds were very popular for awhile, but like the old "woody twang" of the 'Buds and limited-sustain metallic-sounding Fenders, it gradually gave way to the fatter and fuller (but less noticeable in-the-mix) sounds we have today.

'Course, those old tube amps helped too!

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