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Topic: Anyone using a hand lever? |
Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2015 12:48 pm |
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Do any of you gents use a hand/arm lever, or have played a steel with one? I have been thinking about adding one.
The only one I have see recently is a youtube steeler named Tony Arrowood. He plays a blue single Marlen...beautifully.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2PYXeWoY_U
Any thoughts/comments/suggestions on the hand lever are appreciated.
Thanks! 
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Sierra Crown D-10 |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 3 Dec 2015 1:02 pm
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Mike Perlowin has one on his MSA's.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2015 1:18 pm
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I haven't seen Mike around the forums lately...I would like him to comment on it. 
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Sierra Crown D-10 |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2015 2:16 pm
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Thanks Jerry,
Nice pics in that thread. And you have it set up as a vertical - nice concept that I didn't even think about.
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Sierra Crown D-10 |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2015 10:41 pm
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A wrist lever is one of the last logical places to add changes when you've got 4 or 5 hanging levers and a vertical, but still want more changes to use in combination with pedals or even other knee levers.
I tried Perlowin's wrist lever a couple of times. Sort of works, but also sort of messes up right hand blocking, it seemed to me. Maybe over a long period of time I could have made it work.
I resorted to a left knee forward on my Mullen, that is actually too stiff to use much, so I keep stripping off changes. Now it's just string 1 F#>G#, and it's still too long in action and too stiff to comfortably use. But it was worth a try, and others have gone to that extreme and had it work OK. I wouldn't recommend it.
My next guitar will have a Crawford cluster on the left, staggered levers on both sides of the knee, and that change on the LKFwd will go on a LKR-rear.
There's always something fun to experiment with on pedal steels!
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▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2015 4:38 am
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Dale - I hear you, lol.
| John McClung wrote: |
A wrist lever is one of the last logical places to add changes when you've got 4 or 5 hanging levers and a vertical, but still want more changes to use in combination with pedals or even other knee levers.
I tried Perlowin's wrist lever a couple of times. Sort of works, but also sort of messes up right hand blocking, it seemed to me. Maybe over a long period of time I could have made it work.
I resorted to a left knee forward on my Mullen, that is actually too stiff to use much, so I keep stripping off changes. Now it's just string 1 F#>G#, and it's still too long in action and too stiff to comfortably use. But it was worth a try, and others have gone to that extreme and had it work OK. I wouldn't recommend it.
My next guitar will have a Crawford cluster on the left, staggered levers on both sides of the knee, and that change on the LKFwd will go on a LKR-rear.
There's always something fun to experiment with on pedal steels! |
Yeah, the cool thing is experimenting. I feel that the lever might be more suitable placed back further, where I could engage it with my forearm, sort of moving the elbow out away from the body. The issue is, I "think" I need at least 7 or 8 knees as it is.
I had a Sierra back in the 80's with the "Emmons four" knees, and also 5 -10, and 3 - 6 lower. I got used to those six knee changes and I feel they are the absolute minimum to play with - unless you are Lloyd Green! 
Kinda hard to go less than that when you are already used to them...and then there is the 1 & 2 raise, so things start adding up fast.
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Sierra Crown D-10 |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2015 8:05 am
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I used to play an old Multi-Kord pedal steel guitar. That I bought new from Jay Harlin back in the early 60's.
Because of Neuropathy in both legs I cannot play a pedal steel anymore.
So I built a lap steel guitar and designed and built a tuning changer for it. It has 4 of the tunings that I used to use on my Multi-Kord that I can go to with the flip of a single lever.
Sadly I cannot change tunings while playing a song though. |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 4 Dec 2015 9:00 am
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| Tim Russell wrote: |
| I haven't seen Mike around the forums lately...I would like him to comment on it. |
Tim, you might want to try contact Mike directly. |
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Don Crowl
From:
Medford, Oregon, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2015 10:52 am
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I have a 3.5" high WL on my Bb6 MSA UNI. It folds down quickly & easily when I don't want to use it.
It lowers my 5th, Bb string a half tone for a nice major 7th. I'm a novice player, but I've not found it inconvenient. It also provides less hardware as compared to having that movement connected to an extra pedal. If interested I could provide a picture. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Don Crowl
From:
Medford, Oregon, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2015 12:25 pm
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Herein are a little different views of WL on MSA Uni.
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 Dec 2015 5:36 pm
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I know I'm gonna catch flak for this, but my view is that until you have mastered everything you already have (and by "mastered", I mean you can play everything Paul, Tommy and Lloyd play), you probably shouldn't be thinking about adding something like this.
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 5 Dec 2015 6:56 am
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Donny, only a select few in my opinion, will be inside the ballpark with PF, LG and TW. Thus the need for a forest of knee levers and floor pedals. Those mentioned players can net a few thousand passages+ with or without an extra knee. Guys like me may be lucky to master an efficient load in, load out, pending how many flights of stairs must be traveled....pic'd below, three flights up 
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Assorted gear and a set of hands...
https://www.facebook.com/garythelee
https://www.youtube.com/user/ZumEmm |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 5 Dec 2015 8:22 am
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Gary, your own modesty aside, you're a fine player with just about anything. I just sometimes have to question the logic behind endlessly adding things that the real pros don't seem to use, or need. In so many other endeavors, and pursuits, the general practicioners follow and seek to emulate the masters. But in the world of pedal steel, there remains a group that feels they need to keep adding more and more to set themselves apart, or progress on the instrument. And, at some point, I just feel those additions may become a distraction or a crutch, one that hinders the players from using, more effectively, what they already have.
I guess what I'm saying is that I think that if you already really excel at what you're doing, then it's probably okay to try and expand your arsenal. But, if someone else is doing far more or far better with what you already have, or less than what you have, is it logical to add more and more "stuff"? In the world of 6-string guitar, I'm seeing more and more amazing players, and I think that a lot of this is due to the standardization of the instrument. But in the world or pedal steel, I'm seeing fewer and fewer amazing players, but increasingly complex and diverse instruments...and I think there's a correlation, there.
Me? I'm just a hack bar-room player, and all this is just my opinion. There may be others out there that have a different, and much more valid perspective. |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 5 Dec 2015 10:20 am
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Donny, as you may recall,for a few years I worked with a Baltimore based swing band, String Theory. We did lots of big band, Django, pop, Manhattan T. stuff. I can tell ya, my steel guitar facade (loaded knees and pedals) impressed a room full of players one evening. I was struggling with a solo on a new tune. To me, it was cutting edge atonal at best. Anyway, all that fancy foot and knee work superseded 12 bars full of clams. They loved it and commented a plenty about said facade. So, on the other hand, there may be some net worth with a few extra contraptions that manipulates string raises and lowers...
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Assorted gear and a set of hands...
https://www.facebook.com/garythelee
https://www.youtube.com/user/ZumEmm |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2015 11:35 pm
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One should use whatever equipment and means necessary to express themselves on their instrument. Mastering the masters, while a a noble pursuit, is not a path to creativity or success. Hendrix did not master Charlie Christian, he bought a Marshall amp and a fuzz tone. Coltrane did not master Charlie Parker, got a tenor sax and did his own thing. Use whatever pedal strikes your fancy, fires your imagination, and not what your predecessors(or contemporaries) use. We may not be a Hendrix or a Lloyd Green, but we all have the potential to be creative, original, and true to our own vision.
John |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 7 Dec 2015 7:27 am
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| John Goux wrote: |
| One should use whatever equipment and means necessary to express themselves on their instrument. Mastering the masters, while a a noble pursuit, is not a path to creativity or success. Hendrix did not master Charlie Christian, he bought a Marshall amp and a fuzz tone. Coltrane did not master Charlie Parker, got a tenor sax and did his own thing. |
That's a valid point, about expressing yourself using whatever is necessary. But keep in mind...both Coltrane and Hendrix probably aren't the best examples for your argument, for when they expressed themselves, they played instruments that were already available. Neither one went adding things on their instruments in order to be different, and change the world of music.
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2015 12:29 pm
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| Les Paul, Eddie Van Halen...BUDDY EMMONS. Should I continue? |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 7 Dec 2015 5:57 pm
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Continue...but with steel players, please.  There were indeed some, like Hal Rugg, Curly Chalker, and Julian Tharpe; guys who always seemed to have more pedals than most other pro players. Emmons was an innovator, for sure, but he made do with fewer pedals than these guys, and I'd also guess that he made that conscious decision for a reason. I'd be interested in Lloyd's opinion, too, as to whether he feels "handicapped" by not having more levers or pedals. |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2015 10:12 pm
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Bud Isaacs. Alvino Rey, Chuck Campbell, Tom Brumley, Joe Wright, Robert Randolph...
Why would you ask us to limit the conversation about musical innovations to steel guitars? You should be focusing on innovation and musical expression. Use the greatest as a model of creativity, not a box limitations that must be mastered and maintained. That kind of innovative zeitgeist spans all instruments and artistic mediums.
For the record, Bud Isaacs did not invent, but added the pedal to country music. Buddy E added 2 strings that were not previously used. These two added physical things to the steel guitar by breaking convention and following their imaginations. Not by maintaining the status quo.
And, since you keep bringing him up, Lloyd made quite a stir showing up on a Nashville session with his new E raise lever.
If you want a lever attached to your nose you should go for it. There is enough tradition in these ranks to last an eternity. If pedal steel is to survive as something more than a lovely anachronism, it needs fresh ideas and new music.
John |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 8 Dec 2015 3:24 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
I know I'm gonna catch flak for this, but my view is that until you have mastered everything you already have (and by "mastered", I mean you can play everything Paul, Tommy and Lloyd play), you probably shouldn't be thinking about adding something like this.
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1: props for spelling flak right.
2: I need more levers than Lloyd because I don't know how to wring the notes in my head out of the guitar without them.
I could probably make do with less, but I'd have to spend time thinking about how to get the notes from head to strings. What I have lets the guitar serve as a hitchless interface between brain and amp.
Kayton Roberts could outplay me with two 8s and no changer on the guitar. Doesn't mean we should go back to lap steels until we catch up to him.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Dec 2015 7:30 am
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Guys, may I remind you that this is a forum, and much of I (and others) post here are opinions. While others may feel that wrist levers are a helpful adcvantage, I feel they are to be avoided. The main reason I feel this way is that they are currently not a mechanical standard on the instrument, and I happen to view mechanical changes such as this as being different than merely changing a setup, or adding an extra floor pedal, or knee lever. While a wrist lever may give you another change, it may also hamper one's playing. Once you got used to using one, no more would you be comfortable playing any another guitar, and it may (as someone else mentioned) make blocking more problematic. It's kinda like permanently changing your guitar to a really non-standard setup, and I know about that one, personally!
Look, there are no "laws" about this sort of thing, and even if there were, I wouldn't be the one to make them. I'm merely expressing an opinion, and feel quite justified in doing so. That said, it's your guitar, and you're allowed to do whatever you want with it, so add away! I only like to caution players because, like myself, they may not always realize that there are both upsides and downsides every time you vere from the established norm. And, no doubt, this is probably why no established pro (that I know of) currently uses such a device. As I've said numerous times before, I think our biggest "limitation", almost always, lies between the seat and the steel.
Peace! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 8 Dec 2015 8:34 am
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Especially that last sentence.
As usual, you make good points.
I think I'd sooner cluster the left knee.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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