| Author |
Topic: Simon & Garfunkel's THE BOXER - Steel Guitarist? |
Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2015 2:23 pm |
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Watched the doc on the making of the BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER record.
I knew that the instrumental part included a line on pedal steel (with a high Baroque trumpet, I think).
I can't find documentation as to who played the part, but somewhere I recall hearing it was Curly Chalker.
Any reliable source for this?
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1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2015 7:10 pm
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Thanks, Chris, that's the kind of documentation I wanted to see. Not just hearsay.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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robert kramer
From:
Nashville TN
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Posted 18 Nov 2015 7:57 pm
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Praguefrank lists Pete Drake but I think the bmi.com article has more provence. I hope Chalker kept up with the residuals and saw some dollars from a monster like this one.
December 1968 Columbia Recording Studio, 804 16th Ave. South, Nashville, TN – Simon and Garfunkel (Paul Simon [vcl/gt], Art Garfunkel [vcl] , Fred Carter, jr. [gt], Pete Drake [steel/dobro], Buddy Harman [drums], Hal Blaine [percussion], Charlie McCoy [harmonica]) [overdub sessions in Hollywood, CA and New York City)
049 NCO 98688 THE BOXER 4-44785/KCS-9914 KC-31350 C5K-63815 CK 66004
Charlie McCoy is on bass harmonica @ :35 and 2:53. This harmonica is on display at the the "Dylan / Cash and the Nashville Cats" exhibit at the Country Music Hall of Fame.
To quote Al Kooper after hearing Wayne Moss play guitar on a session for "Blonde on Blonde": "They can't do that in New York City." |
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mtulbert
From:
Plano, Texas 75023
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Posted 18 Nov 2015 8:39 pm
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It was Curly indeed who played that solo on the Boxer. My ex boss Fred Carter Jr was the guitar player who did all that gorgeous nylon string guitar playing on that track.
An interesting side to this record. The reverb used was actually an old elevator shaft in the building where the studio was located. Talk about long delay!!!!
M
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Mark T
Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12 |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 19 Nov 2015 4:09 am
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Some information from liner notes written by writer Bud Scoppa:
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| They (Simon and Garfunkel) went with whatever worked; a pedal steel and trumpet paying a line in unison ("The Boxer"). |
Also a trumpet!
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2015 7:25 am
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| there was a guitar player article at the time it came out on the making of the album. it made it sound like carter did the solo part. i guessed he did it with a volume pedal on an electric. anyway that was my impression from it. as paul harvey would say, "the rest of the story." |
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mtulbert
From:
Plano, Texas 75023
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Posted 19 Nov 2015 7:59 am
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Not sure why Fred would have needed a volume pedal. If memory serves me correctly, he did it with a gut string guitar that was mixed. This was the intro.
I am thinking that you are talking about the turnaround? Never mentioned doing that part. Our discussion was more about the reverb on the steel.
Mark
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Mark T
Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12 |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 19 Nov 2015 9:45 am
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I think Gary was relating more to what he heard from an unreliable source and was not doubting what you said, Mark.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2015 9:55 am
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| the article mentioned carter did the guitar work. i mistakenly thought it referred to the steel part which sounded much like what all the local guitar players were doing with volume pedals at the time to imitate steel. the guitar player article never stated that a steel guitar was actually used. i'm glad to know it really was steel. i always loved that solo. |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2015 11:48 am
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here's the issue.
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MIchael Bean
From:
North Of Boston
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Posted 20 Nov 2015 9:31 am
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| Daniel, I am glad you posted this because it prompted me to listen again to The Boxer very closely. As I was reading some of the additional posts as I listened, Youtube then played me the next video, Bridge Over Troubled Water, which continues to blow me away every time. Thanks. |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 20 Nov 2015 9:58 am
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I would estimate that in a lifetime of hearing this song, 99% of the plays have been over a radio in the background (or at the Quickie Mart) so I don't know that I've ever actually sat and truly listened to it. The Charlie McCoy bass harmonica! I never heard it as that until right now. In the background music listening environments, I always perceived it as a brass section!
This song is a classic but I honestly always disliked the production. Which means that I potentially would have been the forgotten idiot who said no before someone came forward and made this thing for posterity.
Who produced it? |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 20 Nov 2015 10:03 am
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deleted
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube.
Last edited by Joachim Kettner on 20 Nov 2015 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Doug Clark
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2015 10:48 am
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More from Wikipedia, which only mentions the pedal steel once, and doesn't say who played it:
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The original recording of the song is one of the duo's most highly produced, and took over 100 hours to record. The recording was performed at multiple locations, including Nashville, St. Paul's Chapel in New York City, and Columbia studios.
The version originally released on single by the duo features an instrumental melody played in unison on pedal steel guitar and piccolo trumpet. The song also features a bass harmonica, played by Charlie McCoy heard during the second and final verses. On the BBC, Paul Simon had Garfunkel's instrumental solo played with a soprano saxophone. |
In an interview for Fretboard Journal, referenced in the Wiki article, Fred Carter Jr. said they had about seven mics on him, including one that even picked up his breathing. They were going to remove that from the mix, but decided to keep it.
It also says Roy Halee was the producer, along with Simon and Garfunkel. I don't think I knew until today that there's a "missing verse," which wasn't in the BOTW version.
More info here, including Paul's comment about altered lyrics that one fan told him about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boxer |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 20 Nov 2015 11:57 am
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lie la lie .. lie la lie lie lie la lie,
lie la lie......
repeat 10x
there are other lyrics that don't make sense to me either.
i can't even hear the steel...or the piccolo trumpet for that matter.
sounds like a one fingered keyboard player to me.
which came first?...this song or the movie 'rocky'...
i certainly wouldn't rate this as a milestone in the history of pedalsteel.
but yeah, hope curly got some royalties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYPJOCxSUFc |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 20 Nov 2015 11:58 am
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| now, about garfunkel's hair.... |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 20 Nov 2015 12:10 pm
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I envy your full hair, Chris! But my face is prettier, I hope.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 20 Nov 2015 12:15 pm
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| ha! i hope so too, joachim, for your sake! |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 20 Nov 2015 1:43 pm
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| Quote: |
| now, about garfunkel's hair.... |
Gone with the wind... |
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Chris Sattler
From:
Hunter Valley, Australia
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Posted 21 Nov 2015 1:57 am
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Art Garfunkel's hair is very fashionable these days with people our age.
They were called "Tom and Jerry" at first but were reluctant to change it to Simon and Garfunkel as they thought it sounded like a law firm.
I also was under the impression it was Pete Drake who did the Boxer. He has played on about 10000 tracks I read somewhere.
I saw S & G in Sydney a couple years back. Just great!!!!! Bridge over troubled water has always raised the hairs on me and to see them do it live was a moving experience for me the likes of which I've never had before or since. I'm not too keen about Paul Simon singing the second verse these days, as the song is a definitive Garfunkel classic, but hey, he wrote it and can do it as he likes. Just prior to the show I had seen a recent clip of them doing "the bridge" and I thought Garfunkel had struggled with some of the notes and I didn't know what to expect. But he absolutely nailed it. Didn't struggle one little bit. What a great voice.
If it is the lack of hair that does this then I should be just as good as him. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 21 Nov 2015 4:36 am
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'All lies in jest....' It was a strong song that left an impression on many people, faces cut in their anger and their shame... great songwriting,
and great hair. |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 21 Nov 2015 10:37 am
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| i tried to watch it but the ads kept starting and stopping and then finally the black guy came on and said he was gonna 'conversate' with art so i had to turn that imbecile off! |
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