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Topic: Newbie question - String noise while changing positions??? |
Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2015 9:56 pm |
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Ok.....this is making me a little batty. Let's say I'm playing up in B at the 11th fret (C6 tuning, 8 string), and go down to the 4th fret. Even after I've palm muted the notes I played up at 11, I'm getting a bunch of annoying string noise as I slide the bar down to 4. Should I be lifting the bar to change positions, or?
Another example.....say I'm playing strings 2 and 5 at the 9th fret, and sliding them up to the 11th. Well, I'm getting what seems like excessive noise and notes from strings 3 and 4. Obviously, I can't lift the bar to slide those notes, and I have my fingers on the left hand dragging behind the bar. Shouldn't that keep it clean? Grrrrrr!
Is it possible that old strings or the bar (Broz-o-Phonic) are contributing to this, or is it purely technique?
Thanks.....and sorry for all the posts. I'm really into this and have a ton of questions! |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 1:45 am
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Ensure you are picking cleanly.
I drag my fingers behind the bar it helps get a smoother tone. Check my blog for chord change smoothness.
Also roll some of the tone off to give it a more mellow sound unless of course you are after the pedal steel tone. But realise they don't move the bar nearly as much as you will on Lap Steel Guitar.
Oh most importantly SLOW it down and practice practice practice
Welcome to the Lap Steel Guitar family
It takes about 3 times as long as guitar to learn.
And there aren't even a tenth the equivalent of training materials
So be patient and ask a lot of questions
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 10:04 am
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semi flats come be helpful too. I found using the Tribotone tone bar was very helpful on reducing string noise. Eventually, over the years my technique got better and all that is less important in a way. Trying different bars may help..............nothing replaces time and technique
_________________
www.deluxe34.com lap steel stands, Clinesmith, Gibson Console Grande, Northwesterns, The Best Westerns
https://www.facebook.com/TheBestWesterns |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 10:10 am
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Weight of the bar does help.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 10:29 am
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Let me echo Mark's comments ... the three "Ts" ... time, technique and Tribotone!
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 10:38 am
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Mute with your right palm.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Larry Carlson
From:
My Computer
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 10:40 am
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Hi Jim,
Welcome to the group. A lot of smart folks in here.
Also welcome to the newbie group of which I am also a member.
I do understand about string and bar noise.
I basically sound like a garbage truck every time I move the bar, my hand or blink my eyes. 
I did move to using flat wound strings and that helped a bit.
It's hard for me to learn techniques without having an instructor to give me some hands on tips.
But it's definitely a fun instrument and I love it.
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 11:09 am
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| Don't use a stainless bar on stainless strings and lift your bar off the strings and mute with the edge of your left hand. |
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Bill Leff
From:
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 1:44 pm
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| Larry Carlson wrote: |
Hi Jim,
Welcome to the group. A lot of smart folks in here.
Also welcome to the newbie group of which I am also a member.
I do understand about string and bar noise.
I basically sound like a garbage truck every time I move the bar, my hand or blink my eyes.
I did move to using flat wound strings and that helped a bit.
It's hard for me to learn techniques without having an instructor to give me some hands on tips.
But it's definitely a fun instrument and I love it. |
Schedule a Skype lesson with John Ely. I'm sure he can tell you what you are doing wrong and how to fix it. He did for me. |
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Steve Atwood
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 2:24 pm Re: Newbie question - String noise while changing positions?
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| Jim Fogarty wrote: |
| ...say I'm playing strings 2 and 5 at the 9th fret, and sliding them up to the 11th... Grrrrrr! |
After picking strings 2 and 5 you can pick-block strings 3 and 4 while sliding up. At first it seems annoying to have to do that, but if you look at it as a part of what you have to do to get the right sound, it's a challenge and after a while learning the blocking motions becomes just as much fun as the picking. |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 3:28 pm
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Thanks, all.
I actually have been doing pretty well muting with my right palm. Stopping the notes I've played hasn't been that much of an issue. It's more the ones around it, as I shift position.
So, is it a given that you lift the bar when moving (and not playing a note, obviously)? I've read some people say the bar should never leave the strings, but then I see Cindy Cashdollar on her DVD (which is excellent) playing single notes with tip of the bar, and Erv mentions lifting the bar. Any consensus on this?
I'm definitely looking at a Skype lesson with John Ely, thanks. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 7:48 pm
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Ok....after a long session tonight, I think one of the issues is, instead of just GUIDING the bar and letting it roll where it should go, letting the weight of the bar keep it down......I'm pressing down a bit too hard, causing extra tension, friction and noise. It's a subtle thing but noticeable.
The strings on this old T-8 are pretty damned cruddy, too. That can't help.
.....or maybe I'm just imaging things!  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 11:09 pm
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Signal to noise is directly related to how hard you pick. If you have a light touch, you will hear more of the strings that you didn't pick. The best players pick pretty darn hard. They get more sustain and better tone that way, too.
In my experience, flatwound strings have less sustain and presence - essential ingredients of good tone. I don't recommend them for steel guitar.
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Posted 10 Nov 2015 11:26 pm
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| Jim Fogarty wrote: |
| So, is it a given that you lift the bar when moving (and not playing a note, obviously)? I've read some people say the bar should never leave the strings, |
My default position is with the bar off the strings. And yes, for single note lines, only the tip of the bar is needed. |
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Sebastian MΓΌller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 4:33 am
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I'm with Guy on this one, it really depends on your style, I'm pretty sure that a lot of the old players used left hand damping for most of their playing, using a tilted bar for all single note lines.
_________________
https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 7:57 am
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| Also, to cut down on string noise you only cover the strings you are playing with the bar. In other words, if you are playing strings 4,5 & 8, you don't cover any strings higher than string 4. If you watch closely, you will see the experienced steelers moving the bar forward and backward on the strings. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 9:13 am
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Right. The strings higher than the ones you're playing are muted with the fingers of the left hand. The strings lower than the ones you're playing are muted with your left thumb. You only have to worry about the strings in between the ones you're playing. If you pick with authority (fairly hard) and don't apply excess pressure to the bar, you won't hear the strings you didn't pick.
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Larry Carlson
From:
My Computer
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 9:44 am
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These posts in here are helping me quite a bit, especially about being more aggressive in my picking.
I tend to be a bit timid in my picking, I don't know why, maybe I'm just afraid of making a mistake.
Anyway.......this morning I sat down and let it all hang out and picked away. Such a difference.
It almost sounds like a lap steel now... 
I know all the info here is just basic stuff to most of you guys and probably very boring but we
beginners out here really appreciate reading and learning these things. It really helps.
One thing no one has mentioned is that sooner or later I will need a mental health specialist if I choose to continue.
I am going to check my health care plan for coverage. 
Thanks all for the advice.......it is appreciated.
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying. |
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Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 9:51 am
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It is never a bad thing to look at the basics no matter how long you have been playing, I find myself slipping in to habits that need a basic overhaul..........
_________________
www.deluxe34.com lap steel stands, Clinesmith, Gibson Console Grande, Northwesterns, The Best Westerns
https://www.facebook.com/TheBestWesterns |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 2:06 pm
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| Curious.....has anyone found Jeff Newman's "Right Hand Alpha" or Joe Wright's "Secrets of the Wright Hand" to be beneficial for Lap playing, or are they a bit too specific to the PSG? |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 4:50 pm
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Excellent! Thanks!
Hey......another Philly guy. Cool. Do you play locally? |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 7:50 pm
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| Jim Fogarty wrote: |
Excellent! Thanks!
Hey......another Philly guy. Cool. Do you play locally? |
Jim,
No, I don't play out. Between work and family stuff I'm lucky to find time to get some minimal practice in.
What bands are/were you in? Where do you mostly play out of (bar/club)?
As a point of reference, I'm a NE Philly boy, age 59, so I did all of my clubbing between 1974 and 1979. Lots of good local cover bands played NE Philly and South Jersey back in the day. |
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