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Topic: Extra seat for PSG on an airplane |
Jim Hussey
From:
Reno, Nevada - USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 2:00 am |
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In a couple of weeks I will be flying Southwest Airlines from Nashville to Oakland. I'm bringing home a D10 and would rather rent a car and drive home before checking the guitar into baggage. The airline says I can purchase a separate seat for the guitar (a lot less than car rental and gas to drive to CA). But, they want me to secure it to the seat with the seat belt. I'm having a hard time picturing how that will work. Seat belt extender through the handle on the case?
I've searched past threads on flight cases and light weight keyless guitars and S10s in the overheads, does anyone have experience with a >65lb D10 in a single case traveling in the seat next to you? UPS almost broke my ZB in half. I sure don't want to give some airline baggage handler a similar opportunity.
Thx
Jim |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 3:50 am
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The only way I could imagine securing it would be with straps or bungies going round the steel and around the back of the seat too. Can't see that going down well with the person in the seat behind though. Can't imagine the lap belt helping much.
When they agreed to sell you a seat, are you sure they understood what a D10 pedal steel was? Sounds like the person heard "guitar" and thought "yes, guys sometimes buy seats for their guitar so I'm sure it will be fine".
Have you measured to make sure a D10 would even fit into a seat?
To be honest, if they are charging you the price of a seat anyway, surely it would make sense for both you and them to carry it on board and stow it in one of the cupboards they must have on board - such as where coats go at the front of the plane. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 4:45 am
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It should fit in the seat, vertically, with the deck parallel with the aisle (not crosswise in the seat).
Might need bungees to the seat back.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 4:50 am
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It would be much simpler, and better on the guitar, to pack it well and send it FEDX or UPS. The abuse of dragging around in an airport in a case would far exceed any damage it could receive if well packed and shipped common carrier. Let us know how it turns out. Must be a super rare guitar?
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 5:39 am
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| I wouldn't ship a steel guitar UPS under any circumstances. ...I would forego the purchase if that was my only shipping option. I have had much better luck shipping music gear via USPS. The most important thing is the packing. Greg Cutshaw has proper instructions on on his website. |
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Alan Michael
From:
Winston-Salem North Carolina U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 7:44 am
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| +1 for USPS.......also cheaper than UPS or FedEx. |
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Malcolm McMaster
From:
Beith Ayrshire Scotland
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 10:10 am
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Jim the guitar will not fit into seat, the only way to do it is to place it on floor (where your feet would be) at an angle leaning against seat , you can then try to put belt round case, but will probably need extension belt which cabin staff can supply.Do not put it in overhead bin, as advised by some here on forum, 1 it is too heavy 2 should there be turbulence or a heavy landing, the locker cold break open and if guitar came out it is just liable to kill someone, leaving you liable, if you are lucky and it did not hit you. I saw several injured people over the years who had been injured by lockers opening spilling their load.As I spent a lot of my Airline career as a aircraft loading supervisor, and having to secure all sorts of seat loaded instruments, I can say this is best way of doing it.
_________________
MSA Millenium SD10, GK MB200, Sica 12inch cab, Joyo American Sound Pedal/ Jay Ganz Straight Ahead amp, Telonics 15inch in Peavey cab, Digitech RP150, Peterson tuner.Hilton volume pedal.Scott Dixon seat and guitar flight case. |
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Ian Sutton
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 10:35 am
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FWIW
I just flew with my S10 from OAK to BNA and back and checked my steel. Typically the bigger heavier stuff is handled differently, and placed by a heavy/oversized items area and not on the baggage carousel. I believe a D10 costs $75 to check on Southwest. My S10 is under 50lbs so did not incur a fee.
I tightened the inside dimensions of the case at the endplates with packing foam to minimize movement, and finally, I also used a luggage strap around the case, should for whatever crazy reason, all the latches fail.
Happy hunting!
_________________
Some gear. |
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Malcolm McMaster
From:
Beith Ayrshire Scotland
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 10:49 am
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You are correct Ian, any time I fly I ask for the steel to go through the oversize check in, in US it is checked by TSA, who have never seen a pedal steel usually, so I have a picture of steel assembled in the top lid of case , plus a polite notice to Custom/ Security asking that if lifting guitar out of case please use end plates, NOT the metal connecting rods as this will damage guitar.When checked it normally goes through a short flat belt straight on to a flat baggage trailer, then direct out to aircraft side, avoiding miles of conveyor belts.Collection at other end is from oversize belt in baggage hall.I have never had any problem doing this, the other option is to ask to gate check it, then ask agent at gate if crew would allow it to be cabin loaded in wardrobe ( this depends on aircraft type) if not it can be carried down to aircraft side just like kids strollers etc, and again pick up at aircraft side on arrival.Have used all these methods, no damage to guitar or case.
_________________
MSA Millenium SD10, GK MB200, Sica 12inch cab, Joyo American Sound Pedal/ Jay Ganz Straight Ahead amp, Telonics 15inch in Peavey cab, Digitech RP150, Peterson tuner.Hilton volume pedal.Scott Dixon seat and guitar flight case. |
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Ian Sutton
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 10:51 am
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Good Call Malcolm,
I too include a photograph and nice note explaining what it is taped to the inside lid so that it's plainly visible should they inspect the instrument.
_________________
Some gear. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 11:46 am
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| Malcolm McMaster wrote: |
| Jim the guitar will not fit into seat, the only way to do it is to place it on floor (where your feet would be) at an angle leaning against seat |
In that case, it would probably need a window seat. On all the flights I've been on, they are very strict about nothing blocking your exit and everything having to go completely under the seat in front and not obstructing leg space. In an emergency, a D10 is just about the last thing you want between you and the exit.
Also, if it doesn't fit on the seat, surely it would also be too wide to fit into the leg space without encroaching on the seat space next door.
I honestly think that the person at the airline that the OP spoke to didn't realise exactly what it was for which he would be buying a seat. |
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Jim Hussey
From:
Reno, Nevada - USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 12:27 pm
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As I suspected, no easy solution for this.
I was very specific about the size and weight. Airline rep knew this was not a standard "guitar". Went up the line to the supervisor who stated that if my guitar weighed less than 190lbs it could travel with me in an adjoining seat. But it would have to be in a front row window seat and be secured with the seat belt. All of this sounds like I will be at the mercey of staff at TSA and the airline crew working my flight.
I was planning to order a split case for this guitar. Now I'm thinkng I should be ordering a split flight case just in case I get a crew that insists on gate checking the guitar. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 1:00 pm
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| used to just put the steel in a flight case and check it. does that not work anymore? |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 1:31 pm
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I would have thought that for the price of a plane ticket, you could probably buy a flight case that would allow the guitar to survive travelling in the hold - especially given that it would be treated as outsize/fragile baggage and not just shoved on the conveyor belt with all the suitcases (although if they did, I suspect the other luggage would risk being damaged by the guitar).
Whenever I fly with a guitar (usually around Europe but occasionally in the US) and, admittedly not a pedal steel, I always have to take it to a special baggage area. I used to request to be allowed to carry it to the plane myself and it would be taken from me as we boarded and loaded into the hold but after a few flights I didn't bother any more and just let them treat is as outsize. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 1:45 pm
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| chris ivey wrote: |
| used to just put the steel in a flight case and check it. does that not work anymore? |
That would seem to be the ticket (no pun intended - well, I guess a little).
Putting myself in Jim's shoes, my gut tells me that the whole buying a seat in the passenger cabin for the guitar in the standard case and hoping it all goes off without a hitch has potential for a tremendous amount of stress, along with an increase in blood pressure written all over it. When I don't trust my gut I often live to regret it later.
I wouldn't do it.
_________________
Mark
Last edited by Mark Eaton on 3 Sep 2015 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris Sattler
From:
Hunter Valley, Australia
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 1:47 pm
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Apparently Yo Yo Ma buys an extra seat for his cello. That ensures a nice quiet ride and an extra meal, which I believe, he asks for as he has paid for the extra seat. I don't think he takes the meal but likes to make a point.
Surely if a cello will fit so will a steel. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 1:54 pm
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That's one of the things I first thought of when reading this topic, cellists and upright bassists have long been known to purchase a seat for their instruments, especially since the value of some of them are stratospheric, but the typical shapes of those cases strike me as being more amenable to getting an airline seat belt to work with it.
I still don't like the idea with a pedal steel case.
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Mark |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 2:09 pm
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Sheeeit, buy it a drink too.
A sat beside a "crying" pedal steel once and was miserable until it did Oswald's "End of the World"
So.....where you from, Nashville?
Would you like the isle seat so you can get up to pass some lubrication without disturbing me? |
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Bill Cunningham
From:
Atlanta, Ga. USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 2:50 pm
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Get a set of Red Dirt split cases if you can in time and check it. No guarantees but that is what I have successfully done on Delta with my Mullen D10 9+9 a few times. Before I had the split cases, I wrapped the standard Mullen or Carter case in cardboard with the handle out and had no problems.
Another option, is to put the legs and pedal board in the checked suitcase and get a lightweight SKB gun case and put the guitar in the overhead. Depending on timing, you might get a Danny Bentley fiberboard case instead of the SKB. I believe Carco Clave does this with his Emmons pp.
My guitar may get ripped to shreds next time I check it but, so far, it has not been the case in a half dozen trips or so. I fly multiple times every month with my suitcase for my day job. A few times a year I check expensive shotguns for hunting or shooting with clients. Generally speaking, I think folks tend to be uninformed or, dare I say paraniod, about the airlines. YMMV.
Hope I am not coming across as a smartalic or know it all. Just my experience. Safe travels and congratulations on your new guitar.
Bill
1.6 million airline miles.
 
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 3:11 pm
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Well, I've only flown once with my '74 Shobud. I flirted outrageously with the stewardess, and she let me put it in the closet for overcoats, etc.. Guitar survived, and I had a great dinner date! But,,,, I always use canvas utility straps, available at any hardware store. They ensure that, no matter what, the case will not flop open. I also use these straps on any guitar I've worked on or shipped. Just extra insurance!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Bob Knetzger
From:
Kirkland, WA USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 3:14 pm
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Years ago I had to fly from Phoenix to Minneapolis with a Fender 800 pedal steel and a banjo. I bought a seat and paid for a half fare ticket. They strapped both into the passenger seat with extension belts. That steel case was huge and a modern case should fit better.
I've also shipped that same heavy Fender steel via UPS by building a oversize carton with a couple of inches of extra blocking all around with styrofoam and a double walled cardboard carton around that. I left a access hole to reach in and lift by the case handle. It was cheaper to insure and ship via UPS Ground (less than a week shipping time) than to check it as oversize/overwight (and completely uninsured!) baggage.
Good luck--tell us how it works out. |
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Bob Knetzger
From:
Kirkland, WA USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2015 3:15 pm
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Years ago I had to fly from Phoenix to Minneapolis with a Fender 800 pedal steel and a banjo. I bought a seat and paid for a half fare ticket. They strapped both into the passenger seat with extension belts. That steel case was huge and a modern case should fit better.
I've also shipped that same heavy Fender steel via UPS by building a oversize carton with a couple of inches of extra blocking all around with styrofoam and a double walled cardboard carton around that. I left a access hole to reach in and lift by the case handle. It was cheaper to insure and ship via UPS Ground (less than a week shipping time) than to check it as oversize/overwight (and completely uninsured!) baggage.
Good luck--tell us how it works out. |
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Malcolm McMaster
From:
Beith Ayrshire Scotland
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Posted 4 Sep 2015 8:28 am
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Jeff, it would be a window seat, it would stand on end titled over so bottom of case slips between legs of seat in front, or firm against bulkhead if it is front row, at that angle rest of case slots between arms of seat , seat belt goes round it ( possibly with extension belt) tighten belt and it should be solid.Have secured many items in similar cases eg keyboards etc in my airline time, never had one damaged or come loose.Despite what others say DO NOT put case in overhead locker for all the reasons I mentioned earlier in thread, remember YOU will be responsible for any injury it causes should it fall out of overhead locker, as you have not complied with the airline regulations as regard size and weight.
_________________
MSA Millenium SD10, GK MB200, Sica 12inch cab, Joyo American Sound Pedal/ Jay Ganz Straight Ahead amp, Telonics 15inch in Peavey cab, Digitech RP150, Peterson tuner.Hilton volume pedal.Scott Dixon seat and guitar flight case. |
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Bill Cunningham
From:
Atlanta, Ga. USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2015 9:17 am
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| Quote: |
| Despite what others say DO NOT put case in overhead locker for all the reasons I mentioned earlier in thread, remember YOU will be responsible for any injury it causes should it fall out of overhead locker, as you have not complied with the airline regulations as regard size and weight. |
Malcolm,
I am not so sure about your comment, at least for the USA. The AFM negotiated a change in airline regulations, applicable to anyone, that allows any musical instrument that will fit in the overhead locker to be stowed there. A steel guitar body in an SKB case will easily fit that criterion, at least on the bigger jets. I carry a double bass (two electric basses, not a "double bass" ) in a gig bag, in the overhead a couple times a year with no issue.
Best to you, sir!
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA |
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Malcolm McMaster
From:
Beith Ayrshire Scotland
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Posted 4 Sep 2015 9:43 am
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Bill, it always amazes me what Americans are allowed as cabin baggage , I sit in wonder at the overloading of the overhead bins , even on wide body aircraft the total weight allowed in each bin is around 50 Kgs , a D10 in a standard case probably near that weight, so if you add in that and bags from another two or three passengers it takes it well over the safe load, even your guitar in SKB case takes the total load well on its way to being overloaded.
In UK cabin bag allowance varies between 10 to 15 Kgs and size is also regulated ( can't quote that off the top of my head right now) and is pretty well enforced at gate point where bag must conform to regulation size by placing in a metal measuring cage, to big and it goes in hold at a massive excess charge particularly by Budget airlines who rigidly enforce it.It makes no sense to put anything heavy in these bins, as I have witnessed quite a few injuries, ranging from serious to minor, to passengers being hit by stuff coming out of lockers in flight due turbulence or from heavy landing, and have to say if it was me getting injured by this I would sue the a## off the owner of any over weight bag.The difference of being hit by 10kgs and 50 Kgs could be life threatening.
_________________
MSA Millenium SD10, GK MB200, Sica 12inch cab, Joyo American Sound Pedal/ Jay Ganz Straight Ahead amp, Telonics 15inch in Peavey cab, Digitech RP150, Peterson tuner.Hilton volume pedal.Scott Dixon seat and guitar flight case. |
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