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Topic: Lowers Not Returning To Pitch On Mullen |
steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 9 Feb 2004 6:59 am |
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| In the past week I've been having trouble getting some of the lowers to return to pitch on my Mullen. The 5th string full tone lower on the C6 neck and the high E string (4th) lowers on E9 neck have been problematic. When I raise the same E string and release, it returns to pitch. I could visually see that the 5th string lowering finger (C6) was not returning fully unless I pushed it with my finger. Coincidentally, before I had this trouble, I recently adjusted both lever travel screws to allow more lever travel. By doing this, did I cause the problems? Also, both return springs that pull the lowering fingers back popped off the small spring adjustment screws that are used to increase spring tension (the ones at the endplate). The 5th string on the C6 popped off when I turned the screw at the endplate to increase string tension and the 4th string on the E9 neck popped after I lowered and then raised the 4th string. The C6 string set is only three weeks old while the E9 set has been on for 9 months. HELP!!! I'm afraid to do anything else on the guitar for fear of popping more springs. HOW CAN GET THESE SPRINGS TO STAY ON THE ADJUSTMENT SCREWS? I tried it once by slipping the spring over the barrel type nut that hold the screw to the endplate, but they came off again when I worked the levers. Finally, HOW CAN I GET THE STRINGS TO RETURN TO PROPER PITCH AFTER LOWERING THEM? Advice welcome! Thanks, Steve [This message was edited by steve takacs on 09 February 2004 at 07:16 AM.] [This message was edited by steve takacs on 09 February 2004 at 07:18 AM.] |
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Robert Thomas
From:
Mehama, Oregon, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2004 2:07 pm
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| Contact Del Mullen and he has the solution for you. I had a similar problem and he knew what is was right away. |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 9 Feb 2004 2:37 pm
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Steve sounds like you may need new springs.Most likely you can make the old ones work.(Maybe cut them where they have pulled thru, (Striped) the screw.)But first I have to ask? Are the lowers returning flat?(most common problem) which would most likely be caused by having to little tension on the springs.
For those who may not know.You can get these springs to tight.This can cause the raise finger to move forward not good or at the very least make the lever or pedals to stiff.Just my thoughts....bb
EDIT Sorry Steve I should have read your post more closely..................bb[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 11 February 2004 at 07:46 PM.] |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 10 Feb 2004 2:22 pm
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| Robert, I tried emailing you but the message bounced back. Can you tell me exactly what the problem was on your steel either here or by email, please? Mike at the Mullen Company told be perhaps the changer was dirty. He also suggested switching the rods on the 5th string lowers on the C6 neck to the pedal 5 pull is in the next to lowest hole and the lever rod would then be put in the lowest hole. He said I'd need to buy new springs for the two where the barrel nut had popped out. Bobby, do all springs fatigue over time and need to be replaced of modified as you suggested above? The lowers are returning flat, not sharp. If I raise the same string that had been lowered, it then returns to proper pitch. Mike also suggested I clean the changer with lacquer thinner and then add a small amount of oil. Has anyone done that on his guitar and with what results? I would appreciate hering more on this subject, especially from those who have played Mullen guitars. steve |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 10 Feb 2004 3:10 pm
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| Steve,sometimes springs will need to be tighten or I've even had them break.But if your guitar is old, and I gather it is. Sounds like the guy at Mullen has the right idea.Sorry I don't have a Mullen in the herd at this time.Good luck......bb |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 11 Feb 2004 3:49 am
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I'm on a roll; I've tried to send you an email, Bobby, and it also bounced back. H ere is most of what I said in answer to your question, "Are the lowers returning sharp,(most common problem) which would most likely be caused by having to little tension on the springs." I would have thought the spring would return flat if there was not enough tension on the spring. When I looked at the lowering finger, it was not returning all the way unless I nudged it. Shouldn't a stronger spring pull it back all the way?
Secondly, by turning the tension screws at the endplate counterclockwise, I believe I am raising the spring tension. When the screw is turned all the way clockwise, so that it is against the plate and can move no further, I assume it as at it's least amount of tension. Am I correct in these two assumptions? Thanks again for your help. steve
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 11 Feb 2004 7:42 pm
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Sorry Steve.I'm getting old.With too little tension on the return springs the strings would return flat not sharp.Increase the tension on the springs a little at a time till they pull er back.  Clock wise increases the tension on the guitars I own.I would think that would be the case on the Mullen but can't say for sure since I don't have access to one. Sorry for the mix up...........bb |
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Larry Clark
From:
Herndon, VA.
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Posted 13 Feb 2004 8:19 am
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| Steve, What Bobby says applies to Mullen guitars as well. Clockwise increases spring tension,counterclockwise reduces. |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 13 Feb 2004 6:52 pm
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| Bobby, & Larry, thanks for setting me straight on how to increase tension. When I went to adjust the spring tension on these two strings, they were then at maximum tension since I could not turn the screws clockwise any further; they were against the endplate already. Will I have to snip off some of the hook ends off the two springs to increase tension fruther? Thanks, steve |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 22 Feb 2004 9:43 pm
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| Bobby, & Larry,Thanks again for your insights. I cut a few coils off the tension springs & oiled the changer and the lowers are now returning correctly. I still need to clean the changer and will do that when I find some cigarette lighter fluid which contains naptha. b0b, please close this thread. |
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Donald Jeunette
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Feb 2004 3:21 am
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| you need to call del mullen. he has the answer, I like the other guy had the same problem called del and fixed in 5 min on all strings |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2004 7:43 am
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I would caution against either tightening the return springs or shortening them. I have found that when lowers do not return to pitch, it is almost always a dirty changer. I have had this on all my guitars from time to time. As a quick check, simply lay a small bead of 3 n 1 oil on top of the changer on both sides of the offending string.
If the problem is improved as you work the pedal or knee lever, the changer either needs lubing or cleaning and relubing.
I would recommend adjusting the springs only as a last resort.
carl |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 23 Feb 2004 8:35 am
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b0b PLEASE KEEP THIS THREAD OPEN for a while.... there is evidently more to be said on the subject if Carl is speaking. Carl, will I now need to change the springs I shortened? Donald, I emailed the Mullen company and Mike Manley suggested that the changer could be dirty (as Carl also thought could be a possiblity ) and recieved also this reply: "you probably have
your knee lever pull rod going to the fourth hole in the changer or the top
of the two holes for the lowering lever on the changer, and your 5th pedal
is probably in the fifth hole or the bottom of the two. If this is the case
you need to switch the two around. Put the pull rod from your knee lever to
the bottom hole of the changer and move the fifth pedal to the 4th hole in
the changer. You may have to put a small bend in the rods to make sure they
clear each other and all other rods. I would do this first. Then if you
are using the standard .024 string on the 5th, then you should change the
string to a .026. This will also help fix the problem. You should not have
this problem if you do those two things. You might also try switching the
string first, it may fix it and is much easier." Is that what Del suggested Donald? Thanks for taking the time guys, steve |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2004 10:49 am
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Steve,
I am saddened you shortened the springs before FIRST finding the root cause of the problem. The following is why:
If the changer fingers are binding due to being dirty (the most common cause of lowers not returning; or sluggishly returning), you may indeed improve on the problem by messin with the return springs; but at the expense of siffer lowers.
This, IMO, opinion is putting a band aid on a cancer. For if the changer is dirty, the problem is only going to get worse. Necessitating a stronger spring, etc. Whereas, IF you get to the root of the problem, the end results are almost always better.
Finally, I cannot see swapping the pullrod holes (assuming neither nylon tuner was overly tightened) correcting a lower that does not return properly.
Again, IF a PSG just out of the blue begins to have "lowers" that do not come back up to pitch, it is almost ALWAYS due to the changer finger binding because of getting dirty. Springs do on ocassion become weak, but this is mostly due to them being overly stretched, which is rare on a properly adjusted PSG.
Now, if a player works on his guitar for whatever reason, then experiences problems; that is another story.
May Jesus guide, lead and direct you in your quests,
carl |
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Donald Jeunette
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Feb 2004 10:59 am
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No you need to talk to Del himself. You can call him on the phone and it will be worth the call. It has to do with the insert at the end of the cross shaft. I can't explain it, but he had me loosen the collers on this and it solved the problem. I loosend the rest of them and my guitar now plays better then ever. It has something to do with the humidity and tha cab. If I can be of further help I could explain this better by telephone. Let me know by email.
Don |
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