Carvin vs. Quilter

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

My brother-in-law has a herniated disk=my wife is worried about all the heavy equipment I haul around. And given that I don't take great care of myself to begin with, so am I. So: I'm going to try one of them there new-fangled lightweight Class D amp heads. Does anyone have direct experience comparing the Carvin BX500 with the Quilter micro pro (200 or Mach II)? I'm inclined to try the Carvin first given the large price disparity and the power difference. But it is a rare occasion when my wife suggests spending family money on my equipment, so I don't want to rule out the Quilter either.

I have a couple of lightweight 15" enclosures--one closed back, one open-- that I could pair with this.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks.

George Macdonald · From: Vancouver Island BC Canada

I can't compare the Carvin to the Quilter but I do have a Carvin BX500. It is the best amp I have ever used. As you may know, you can use one cab with a 4ohm speaker or two by pressing a button on the back of the amp changing it to 2ohms. All kinds of eq. and it includes a tube in the pre-amp. Under 6 pounds and 500 watts.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

+1 for the BX500. Our lead guitar player who is a "must have Fender tube amp" likes my BX500 and told me it was best I've ever sounded. A part-time (fill in) bass player, who is a steel player and owns a music store (and is a Peavey dealer) says the BX500 sounds great.

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

I have a Quilter Tone Block. I love it. Massive power, powerful eq knob, excellent Di. 4 lbs, $399....for me it was a no brainer. Sounds fabulous and very tube-y.

I have been through many many many tube amps, and modeling devices. The Quilter can hang with the best.

Andy Eder · From: North Florida, USA

Hi Charley,

Do you use it for PSG or regular 6 string electric guitar?

What other devices do you use with it?

Thanks,
Andy

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

I'd say save some money and buy the BX500. I've been using one for 6-7 months, it's an amazing amp. Light, powerful and a bargain. Very Happy

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Here are a couple of more questions:

1) I notice that the direct out on the Carvin bypasses all the tone controls (whereas the Quilter direct out appears to send the same signal as the output jacks). Is there any point to a completely dry line out? Does anyone trust their sound person to completely shape the tone of their steel? (Spoiler alert: I don't.)

2) is the 100 watts on the Quilter enough for a loud gig? Maybe for a loud gig I just cart the Twin head or Session 500 head instead.

Dan

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Hmm...I'm at the Carvin site looking over the 500 but also the 250. I know a bass player who got one (250) for the same reason (health, present & future) and who is ecstatic about it.

Oddly, the 250 has a pre-post eq switch for the direct out. Strange that the 500 loses the switch.

If I were in the market, no only would I be choosing between Carvin & Quilter; I'd be having a hard time choosing which Carvin, which Quilter.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The Carvin BX500 has a true 12AX7 tube amp section (not a low voltage starved plate buffer as many do).

The Carvin 250 and Quilter are solid state.

I'm not a "must have tubes" guy but the 12AX7 tube makes the BX500.

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Not knowing if that was a true tube stage is why I didn't consider that in my equation. It is good to know that it is not the starved tube thing (with a little LED light shining on it to make it look impressive) and it is good to know that you hear it as an important element.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

I've been looking at the Carvin bass amps as well. Here's a link to a pic of the Carvin schematic. It's not ultra clear but you can see that it has FET's instead of bipolar transistors in the input stages. You can also see the layout of the tube section and that they use both halves of the triode. The Plate V+ capacitor voltages suggest that the plate voltage is less than 100 vac and you can estimate the plate current from the size of the cathode/plate resistors. I've seen preamps run from 15 all the way up to 250 volts but the proof is in the sound! Sometimes the lower plate voltages can give earlier breakup. There is a lot of components in the BX-500!

The BX700 has a more versatile direct out configuration:

"Direct Output

The direct out features a DI LEVEL control and PRE/POST switch on the front panel controlling the XLR bal output on the rear. The PRE setting is buffered directly to the XLR from the first stages of the preamp. The POST setting includes the EQ and EFFECTS LOOP bypassing the MASTER LEVEL. This enables level changes without affecting the XLR output. The XLR is muted by the MUTE switch. The GROUND LIFT switch next to XLR helps isolate hum to the recording or PA console."

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Pics/Carvin%20BX-500%20Schematic.jpg

oops! Here is a crystal clear pdf of the BX-500 schematic:

http://www.carvinservice.com/crg/schematics/45500_revf.pdf

Bruce Derr · From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA

Looks like the tube's two triode sections are wired in parallel to form one cathode-follower circuit (unity-gain buffer stage). Also it appears that the tube can be bypassed. I agree with Greg about the plate voltage; looks like it's about the same as the positive rail going to the output MOSFETs, 65 - 70 VDC.

I like that the amp has a DC protection circuit for the speaker. If my Webb had had that when it blew back in '85, it wouldn't have fried that vintage D130F... Sad

Dan, that Quilter Micro Pro looks pretty spiffy; coincidentally I was just drooling over the combo versions the other night on their website. FWIW, if it was me, that's probably the way I'd lean if I had to pick one without trying out either beforehand. The Carvin looks nice, though. 500 watts is a lot of power... I hope you have one of them speakers with the Neil Diamond magnets!

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

As I mentioned, I own the BX500, I bought it new. But I also have the BX250 head and the MB15 combo amp. I bought both these used and got good deals on them. A few observations; The BX500 is super powerful and has the most extensive EQ section. The MB15 has the same amp as the BX250 head, but is a combo, with a 15" speaker. They all sound really good. I think if someone is having a problem deciding which one to buy, they might go with the MB15 combo. It would be cost less, the speaker seems to suit the amp very well. I've tried the BX250 head with several 15" and 12" speakers and it sounded good with all of them, but the speaker in the MB15 seems to match up very well with this amp. I rarely play a gig that has a sound man, but have had the BX500 w/Sica speaker miked and it worked well. I've never used the direct out on any of these amps. These are just my impressions, but I don't think you can go wrong with any of the amps. And I have less invested in all three amps then I would have in a Quilter Steelaire.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

You can buy the 115MBE 15" cab with speaker for $229:

http://carvinamplifiers.com/collections/mb-series-extensions/products/115mbe-micro-bass-extension-cabinet

add the BX500 for $399 and have only $628 in the whole system. This would offer more EQ and power and functions than many steel combo amps that cost much more. Getting custom colored tolex just by clicking a box n the order form is pretty cool too. Shipping for both pieces to PA is only $35 UPS ground.

In some cases it might be nice to adjust the stage EQ separate from the DI feed. Having the DI feed source as an optional switch is nice. You can see how the switch is implemented on some of the other Carvin bass amp schematics.

Quentin Hickey · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

If Im not mistaken, forum member Danny Sneed uses one in his more rescent videos that he made and sounds great.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Thanks for all the input and info, guys. Bruce raises a good point: if I'm only going to plug in a single 4 ohm speaker rated @100 watts, is it really efficient to use a 500 watt amp?

Along those lines, I'm assuming it is okay to use a single 4ohm speaker with any of these amps, yes?

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

If I was to pick the Carvin amp it wouldn't primarily be for the power. It would be for the outstanding tone shaping EQ that it offers.

The power at times could be useful for increased headroom on transients or if you decide to go from one to two speaker cabs. You do gain some headroom in going from 100 to 500 watts (just over 6db gain, perceived volume gain approx 1.6 times) but the volume gain is not very great:

"Doubling of the volume (loudness) should be sensed as a level difference of +10 dB − acousticians say. Doubling of sound intensity (acoustic energy) belongs to a calculated level change of +3 dB. +10 dB is the level of twice the perceived volume or twice as loud (loudness) in psychoacoustics − mostly sensed."

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I only use my BX500 with an Eminence EPS-15C speaker. Power was not the issue when I bought mine. The EQ options and the Tube sold it for me.

I have a POD X3 between the foot volume control and the amp input with the level on the X3 set at 50%. I run the Drive level control on 2 and the Master control on 3 and except for possibly a very loud band that is more than sufficient.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

I'm not really thinking volume, just wondering whether one 100 w speaker will ever take advantage of all those watts. Also, as much as I appreciate the tone shaping possibilities, for someone like me who is always playing on different stages in mostly very small venues, often with precious little time to set up--much less sound check--there is a law of diminishing returns with each added knob to twist or fader to slide (there are certain advantages to the simple combo amp: weight not being one of them). I wonder if the BX250 is a good compromise for me: dual parametric mids but without the 9 band EQ.

I'm guessing that, since many people are using the EPS-15c with any of these heads, that plugging a single 4ohm speaker into them is okay.

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

Hey Andy,

I use my Tobe Block through a Telonics TSNEO12 loaded 1x12. I play 6 string, so I also use an fx board. The Tone Block sounds great on its own, even better with a preamp in front. The EQ knob is much more powerful than imaginable. It easily goes from scooped blackface to Marshall push. If I use a preamp, I set the Tone Block flat.

The DI has a built in speaker sim, which makes the direct tone much more pkeasing, imo. All else aside, the speaker Sim in the TB is what helped me eliminate the Carvin from my list of wants. Again, just my opinion. But as a regular gigging music I an, the Tone Block is an awesome choice combin I ng power, flexibility, and tone.

I also just ordered a micropro Mach 2 8 inch combo. When it arrives, I'll post my thoughts as well on how it compares to the tb.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I did some testing with my BX500, for recording. The effects out can be used with a D.I. box for recording and that is post EQ.

I ran from the effects send to a D.I. Box and then an XLR mic cable from the D.I. box to my recording interface unit channel input.

I have a recording session tomorrow and I'm going to use this and see how it compares with my usual SM57 micing the EPS-15C.

I'm running my Franklin to a Hilton VP to a POD X3 to the BX500.

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

I would love to hear your opinion on the results.

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Cartwright Thompson · Posted 28 Jul 2015 10:45 am

Dan, I've got a MicroPro head. You should come up and try it out.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I don't use the Graphic EQ.

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