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Topic: Amp position - what a change |
John Botofte
From:
Denmark
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 11:36 am |
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I have always played with my Nashville 112 amp standing behind me on the floor and was never that happy with the tone, but thought it was due to my technique or student model GFI - but just a few days ago I put my amp on a small IKEA table which raised it 16 inches and immediately the most beautiful pedal steel sound came out of the amp which almost brought tears to my eyes. I'm almost embarrassed to tell this, but for other newbies it may be interesting to try if you are not finding the right tone.
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GFI SM10-SD 3x2 Pedal Steel,
Georgeboard 8-string, 6-string DL travel lap steel, Gretsch 6-string, Gretsch Jim Dandy Parlor Guitar, Peavey Nashville 112, Boss RV-5
Zoom R8
https://soundcloud.com/lapsteelin1965 |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 12:04 pm
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Two things happen when you put your amp on a chair or whatever. The distribution pattern of the different frequencies changes, especially the lower ones which include unwanted difference tones which we perceive as general muddiness.
A lesser effect is that your listening position is likely to be more on-axis - the part of the spectrum that makes the tone interesting is quite directional.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 12:16 pm
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I normally use an amp stand that angles the sound more towards my head so I can hear everything that is coming out of my speaker. Last weekend, I played a place where I was on the floor, but had my amp on the stage that aimed my amp at my butt. I had the crappiest (no pun intended) tone all night long. Eve a friend in the crowd said it. Same amp setting I always use, and have used at this club many times. Next time we play there, I am going to try to fit onstage. The stage is so small that the drummer, lead guitar/keyboard player and the bass amp and my amp fit. We're going to see if I can fit in the space where the bass amp and my amp are.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 12:34 pm
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I am the opposite. I try to get my tone from room reflections and avoid on axis as much as I can.
The technical explanation that Ian suggests is right on... I think there is a you tube vid somewhere that shows a studio going thrpugh controlled placements of a fender deluxe to find the sweet spot. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 12:49 pm
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I was an audio engineer in one of my previous existences and lived with these considerations every day. There is a lot of complicated science going on, but you can't beat good old trial and error! - especially as our perceptions are so subjective.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Wayne Quinn
From:
Cape Breton.NovaScotia
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 12:58 pm
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John .my amp and my playing is the same. only it brings tears to every ones eys when they here me ,lol 
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D10 Carter, SD10 Mullen .Nashville 400,. peavey 112 Boss DD3., RV5, |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 1:27 pm Another thing to consider..............
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I've found that my LEFT ear hears more of the essential aspects of my playing, than does the right ear.
When possible, I position my amp to my rear, LEFT Side, about six feet behind me, and angle only a few degrees toward me and UP a couple of degrees where ever possible.
It's worked for me................. 
I'm RIGHT Handed................
Last edited by Ray Montee on 26 Mar 2015 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 1:35 pm
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I wonder - just wonder, mind - whether we have ear dominance to go with limb dominance. In a right-handed person the left hemisphere of the brain dominates (apparently all the wiring crosses over in the neck area), so maybe the left ear does have more analytical ability than the left. Wacky enough to be true.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 1:43 pm
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Add in the fact that our eyes actually sees everything upside down....
And now we know why it is that people actually are upside and backwards....
The only ones who have it half correct are said to be dyslexics. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 5:20 pm
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I have a Twin with a JBL 15 for gigs. But at home, my practice amp is a highly modded Princeton Reverb. Allen PT, Dr.Z OT, my tech's favorite capacitors, a 12" Celestion, etc., 20 watts. Perfect for the living room. One day my tech called and said "You've gotta put tilt-back legs on your amp!" I did, and what an obvious difference. It's the amp the late Jerry Brightman, God rest his soul, and I used to set up the Performance Guitars we built. He used it for one of the "Patsy" shows he did, and he abdo-lutely loved that little thing!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 9:03 pm
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Yep, I am playing through a Fender HR Deluxe, and always lean it back against something. Used to use the tilt legs on my Twin. LTD 400 was my main gig amp and sounded best either left in the bottom section of its road case, on a milk crate or a chair. Tilt angle, distance from the floor, proximity to a rear wall... it all matters. But for me, tilted back and off to the side (NOT directly behind me) is always best. YMMV.
When Roy Buchanan played the clubs in D.C. he turned his Twin Reverb around so it faced the back wall.
Anyone know if tilt back legs are available, like those on the old Fender Twin? |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 9:12 pm
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"Anyone know if tilt back legs are available, "
Yup. They are.
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 11:11 pm
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| Will it make any difference if you A) place the amp on a flat surface let's say 15–20 inches above floor level or B) use a low amp stand that tilts the amp upwards? (In both cases with the speaker aimed roughly at your ears) |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 2:52 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| I wonder - |
I do too, Ian, sometimes... bbut that's my field, psychoneurologicalwonderment.
It shouldn't make any difference, should it, if everything is working right; the brain would compensate.
I had/sometimes have a tight neck, right side. When I developed it, I'd just gotten a new stereo amp and thought it
had different output strengths, right side diminished. Took the amp to the store's free diagnostic day;
the outputs matched within 2 dB; it was in my head. Excess tension on the right side was apparently closing the ear canal slightly.
The question would be what was happening in terms of brain dominance that would cause the unilateral tension.
There's not enough anecdotal data yet to be able to determine causality, people's conditions varying so much, but you may be on to something.
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 4:20 am
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I've always elevated my amps to "ear level". Beside sounding different from being on the floor it keeps the volume level down. With an amp on the floor the sound tends to go under you and many players tend to play louder so they can hear. Having the amp elevated keeps the volume levels down.
Our lead player has to keep his amp on his right side. He has a hearing loss in his left ear due to an auto accident. Because of that, I always set up to his right. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 7:34 am
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My personal experience is that the amp flat on the floor is the kiss of death for tone.
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Rick Johnson
From:
Wheelwright, Ky USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 10:00 am
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John
I've mounted a regular road case handle under
some cabinets and it tilts the amp back
just right. Plus its cheap and easy to install
Rick
www.rickjohnsoncabinets.com |
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Mark Fowler
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Kevin Milner
From:
Los Angeles, California, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 12:01 pm
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I use one of these:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AMP150
Fits perfectly in the back of a N112 folded up for transport. Doesn't fit in the back of my Milkman mini unfortunately.
_________________
GFI S10-P Ultra -> Milkman 40w Pedal Steel Mini or 300w Half & Half (or Sarno SGBB/Nashville 112 or '94 Twin Amp or Homebuilt 5e3)
Effects: Cali76-CD Compressor -> EP booster -> Sarno Earth Drive -> Earthquaker Devices Zap Machine -> Earthquaker Devices Grand Orbiter Phaser -> Caitlinbread Dirty Little Secret Mk III -> Malekko Envelope Filter -> Hilton VP -> Pedal Projects Klone -> Tech 21 Blonde -> Strymon Timeline -> TC Electronics Spark Mini Boost -> Strymon Lex -> Strymon Flint |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 12:22 pm
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That's the nice thing about the tiltback legs. They're self storing.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jamie Mitchell
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 12:23 pm
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| Per Berner wrote: |
| Will it make any difference if you A) place the amp on a flat surface let's say 15–20 inches above floor level or B) use a low amp stand that tilts the amp upwards? (In both cases with the speaker aimed roughly at your ears) |
yes.
i did the milk-crate/chair routine for one tour 5/6 years ago and never went back. eventually bought a tilt-back amp stand for my amp, used it a bit, didn't like it. i've had a similar experience doing FOH at a small jazz club.
so, i would vote against the against the stand, and go find a milk-crate in the back of the bar.
all that being said, that amp is totally fine on the floor too. so...
j |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 12:52 pm
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| Quote: |
| When Roy Buchanan played the clubs in D.C. he turned his Twin Reverb around so it faced the back wall. |
Yeah. He did that every time I saw him here at the Fillmore West. Never could understand why.
| Quote: |
| My personal experience is that the amp flat on the floor is the kiss of death for tone. |
Amen!
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 1:00 pm
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I also have one of these. I like the amp stand that gets the amp off the floor and closer to my head level best. This one can let the amp fall over. What I did was, drill 2 holes in the plate that rests against the amp. Drilled two matching holes in the back of the amp. I put 2 "T" nuts in the holes and bought 2 plastic knobs with the same threads as the "T" nuts. That works great.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/hamilton-unistand-guitar-amp-stand
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 1:14 pm
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All good advice -My 2 cents.
I always figured the audience is supposed to really hear the sound of the steel, so, however I set the speaker, on the floor, on a chair, whatever is available, I try to give the speaker a clear path to the audience and angle it so I get a slice of the axis. So, i'm with Tom - "I try to get my tone from room reflections and avoid on axis as much as I can."
Every room is different, even if you play the same room on a different night. Then you got playing outdoors, a different situation altogether!
So, I fiqure if I already know my settings/sound is good, and I like the sound before hand, It's gonna work pretty well when you change your bands placement. Then It's really just a volume issue which as we all know, can be tricky. If your speaker then goes thru a PA, of course you're at the mercy of the sound guy. I tell the sound guy to set EQs flat and put the volume on 2 1/2, just a bit thru the PA. That way you have to really work your volume pedal & it does not blast thru the PA.
This is all tricky stuff and as you know, it changes constantly, day by day, song by song.
It's just part of the fun!
Good Luck!
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 2:40 pm
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I'm using a Nashville 112 fiber case that was built by Danny Bentley that used to work for Bobbe Seymour. I'm now using an Eminence EPS-15C in a cabinet I built. I purposely built it the same dimensions as a Nashville 112, except 1" taller to accommodate the 15" speaker, so I could use the Danny Bentley fiber case. I set the speaker on top of the fiber case.
In ref to turning the amp toward the wall. I filled in one weekend on bass in a friend's band. The regular bass player left his Kustom amp (the old tall pleated one with two 12" speakers) and Gibson bass for me to use. He turned the Kustom speaker cabinet around so it was pointed to the wall. I had a "wall of bass". |
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