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Topic: Please be certain before you commit.! |
David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 4:05 am |
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| I have spent the preceding two and one half weeks exchanging numerous P.M.'s with two individual buyers for my Sierra S-10. In both cases, the parties involved committed to the sale (to the extent that it was stated that payment would be mailed the following day) only to then renege at the last moment. Have no problem whatsoever negotiating with a prospective purchaser or taking whatever time necessary to answer any and all questions regarding the guitar, but once a person commits to the sale, I feel that it is only common courtesy to follow through..Just my opinion, yours may vary...Thank you for reading. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 4:54 am
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I can empathize with your situation, after having tried to strike a deal, to have someone else butt in, leaving me in the lurch.
Common courtesy seems easy, communicating fully and taking one's word as a bond, but that way seems to be slowly slipping from society.
An old sage said 'He who doesn't trust won't be trusted.' It makes an extra burden for we who would remain trusting, not wanting to cave
to this 'new' way (altho the writings of the sage indicate things haven't changed in 2500 years).
Just for you to mention it means that you wish to remain steadfastly honest. I guess we just keep going; good luck in your search for steel resolve. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 7:23 am
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Money talks, BS walks!  |
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Andy Eder
From:
North Florida, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 7:32 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| Money talks, BS walks! |
My word Erv!!! |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 9:37 am
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| Erv says more in a single word than I can in a chapter! |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 9:42 am
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| that's a fact. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 9:43 am
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I truly believe, that sometimes when a buyer commits, he views it as having a "hold" on the guitar until he really makes up his mind to buy it. You know... They tell you on Monday that they will purchase the guitar. Tuesday, he talks to the wife. When he regains consciousness Monday night or Tuesday, then he calls and cancels the buy. Unfortunately, I think this happens a lot on here.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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William Polka
From:
Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 10:16 am
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| Erv, you are a sage. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 10:39 am
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Believe me, I speak from experience also.  |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 11:17 am
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| Richard..I fully understand your point concerning spur of the moment decisions made before thoroughly thinking the purchase through, but to negotiate the terms of a sale for over a week through countless P.M.'s, (delivery method for the guitar was the only point of contention in one case)finally reach an agreement,then have the party back out at the last minute does not seem to qualify. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 11:44 am
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| ebay with BIN (Buy It Now) and PayPal solves this problem. Then you can always donate to this forum later if the buyer is from here, or even if ebay is just referenced here. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 2:55 pm
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Look guys, shit happens.. I have been on both sides of the fence on this.. At this very minute, I am waiting on a guy that has committed to buying a steel from me.. He said it would be a few weeks before he could come pick it up..Wanted to send a deposit.. I took his word.. Also told him, if he had to back out, not to sweat it.. NO hard feelings..
Really, if you have something thats desirable and well priced, it will sell.. Perhaps not the second you want it to sell, but it will sell IF its priced right.
I suppose there are a few of us here that seriously are in desperate need of the money, and if thats the case here, I apologize. Most sales here go ok, but sometimes things come up... Lets say you see a steel that a decent buy at $1500 and you commit.. Then right before you write the check, a guy in the next town is selling the same guitar, in better shape with a good amp for $900.. What do you do?.. The "honorable thing" and spend a lot more money for a lot less value??.... I dunno the answer to these questions, but buyers back out sometimes.. I have done it and had it done to me.. Life goes on.. If thats the worse thing that happens in ones life, count your blessings I guess... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 3:01 pm
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David, btw, I took a look at the Sierra,,, You certainly DID have it well priced.. A bargain in fact.. A very very nice steel, great looking, clean as a whistle, and ultra precision.. The guy that backed out lost out on a very good deal!.. Glad it sold, as it was bound to.. It was a nice guitar at a nice price, and the new owner made out well for what you sold it for... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 3:07 pm Poor form
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If you say you are going to buy something, you need to do so. If something happens and you need to reconsider, the honorable thing to do is simply explain it as soon as possible, as to not unfairly tie up someone's gear, and preventing him from selling it to another.
Not everybody does ebay or paypal. I don't. Deals here can be informal, but we should follow through and do what's right when we claim an item.
I understand things change. If you need to back out of an agreement, best to do so early in the deal. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 5:45 pm
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Yes, it's in poor form to back out of a deal that has been dragging on for a while and been tying up the guitar for another prospective buyer. I do agree with Bob that sometimes crazy stuff happens, and I would never coerce someone into a deal that they get cold feet on. But on the other side of the coin, if someone is dragging their feet, it's not usually a good sign. So I would not hesitate to say, "Make up your mind now and get me the dough or it's back on the market." Erv's right - money talks, BS walks. Of course, that's an old aphorism, and it applies equally to buyer and seller.
I think part of the problem with this kind of stuff is the "Put me in line, I responded first, so I'm entitled." mentality that exists here on the buy/sell forums. We should not fault someone for selling to whomever they please, for whatever reason they please. There's a helluvalot more than saying, "I'll take it.", to consummating a good deal for everybody.
David, I saw that steel. It's a bargain, I had one just like it, I basically learned on it. Those Sierras are tanks, and sound and play great. Even if this deal goes sour, you'll sell it. Anybody looking for a solid professional S10 for not a lot of money should be thrilled. |
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Jimmie Hudson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2015 8:03 pm Re: Please be certain before you commit.!
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| David Nugent wrote: |
| I have spent the preceding two and one half weeks exchanging numerous P.M.'s with two individual buyers for my Sierra S-10. In both cases, the parties involved committed to the sale (to the extent that it was stated that payment would be mailed the following day) only to then renege at the last moment. Have no problem whatsoever negotiating with a prospective purchaser or taking whatever time necessary to answer any and all questions regarding the guitar, but once a person commits to the sale, I feel that it is only common courtesy to follow through..Just my opinion, yours may vary...Thank you for reading. |
Hi David, I have folks call me and tie up hours on the phone and email sometimes for weeks on a guitar order. They order a guitar after spending many many hours of my time working to get the guitar they want figured out with setup and colors and all the little stuff they want and then in a day or two they back out of the order. It happens many many times. I just figure it is part of the animal of doing business. I try to be as nice to them as I can so if they do buy a guitar at a later time maybe they will buy from me. I have even got deposits on guitar orders and they still back out of the deal.
When the check clears the bank you can say you have a customer for your guitar. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 14 Jul 2015 5:33 am
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| I truly believe, that sometimes when a buyer commits, he views it as having a "hold" on the guitar until he really makes up his mind to buy it. You know... They tell you on Monday that they will purchase the guitar. Tuesday, he talks to the wife. When he regains consciousness Monday night or Tuesday, then he calls and cancels the buy. Unfortunately, I think this happens a lot on here. |
Whether or not you think it qualifies is irrelevant. It does happen. Maybe some other thing in life comes up that is more important. It does happen , you know.
Just for the record, I am on the side that believes that if you say you will buy item, I expect you to send me the money, or at least a non-refundable deposit.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2015 9:44 pm
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| Quote: |
| I truly believe, that sometimes when a buyer commits, he views it as having a "hold" on the guitar until he really makes up his mind to buy it. |
And those people need a nasty lesson in contract law.
A verbal commitment isn't just something that should be "honorably" followed-through with - it's legal binding contract.
I've been burned on this several times (never here) but no more -- I will not hold an item for anyone unless I have something in writing. An email is good, but weak in some states. A letter of commitment signed, dated, scanned and emailed is as good as the letter itself.
I'm very patient with slow buyers. I've been there. But once they pull the trigger, I ask "are you SURE?", and if they say yes I request a written letter of intent to purchase. I politely make sure they understand they are entering a legally binding contract and that I intend to hold up my end - and expect them to hold up theirs.
With waffling buyers who finally commit I request a 50% nonrefundable deposit. If they can't live with that they're not a serious buyer. This type of thing is rampant in the vintage guitar market when dealing with high 5 and 6 figure prices. After a while you get a feel for buyers and can usually recognize the flakes quickly.
It's the same kind of thing as a construction contract. You sign one, the contractor does the work, you pay. In the case of a tangible goods sale, they sign, they pay, you ship.
The best way to get paid and not have issues nowadays is a direct bank transfer or wire transfer. Fees are cheaper than eBay/Paypal and the money is irreversibly in your account immediately. There's no "changing minds" without some kind of penalty, which should be established in advance (shipping both ways plus 20% handling/return charge usually covers the seller's expenses).
But as a seller, if you treat these situations casually you'll get burned repeatedly. Any buyer offended by contract and/or deposit requirements is a buyer you do NOT want anyway - don't waste your time on them.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Malcolm McMaster
From:
Beith Ayrshire Scotland
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Posted 16 Jul 2015 12:00 am
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Had an instance where I hooked up a non forum friend with a seller in US and everything went well and they agreed on sale, my friend went to bank got international money fixed up and the shipping arranged,when he received a call " sorry I've sold it to someone else". Now this forum member had , in my view, committed to sale, and it is my belief that when doing so you should honour that agreement, he also has cheek to display a Christian symbol beside his name,yeah right! .I did at the time let him know exactly what I thought of him.Where I come from your word is your word and unless something EXCEPTIONAL happens you should stick to that.
_________________
MSA Millenium SD10, GK MB200, Sica 12inch cab, Joyo American Sound Pedal/ Jay Ganz Straight Ahead amp, Telonics 15inch in Peavey cab, Digitech RP150, Peterson tuner.Hilton volume pedal.Scott Dixon seat and guitar flight case. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2015 7:49 am
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| A verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on. |
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Malcolm McMaster
From:
Beith Ayrshire Scotland
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Posted 16 Jul 2015 7:59 am
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I strongly disagree with you Erv, your word should be your bond, also here in UK it is considered legally binding under certain circumstances.
_________________
MSA Millenium SD10, GK MB200, Sica 12inch cab, Joyo American Sound Pedal/ Jay Ganz Straight Ahead amp, Telonics 15inch in Peavey cab, Digitech RP150, Peterson tuner.Hilton volume pedal.Scott Dixon seat and guitar flight case. |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2015 9:18 am
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| Malcolm McMaster wrote: |
| I strongly disagree with you Erv, your word should be your bond, also here in UK it is considered legally binding under certain circumstances. |
The critical words there Malcolm are "SHOULD be". I agree with you they "should be" and I agree with Erv that reality often says otherwise.
"With a written agreement you might have a prayer
With a verbal agreement you've nothing but air." |
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Jimmie Hudson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2015 9:45 am mans word
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| A verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on. |
Hi Erv, Sad to say in this world we live in today you are correct. In reality the fact is a Mans word is only as good as the Man. No more No less. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 16 Jul 2015 10:02 am
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It's true that verbal agreements are valid. But, there are so many ways someone can get out of it. Have a friend lie for you and say that the other party didn't actually say something. You see this all the time on People's Court and Judge Judy. Being under oath is a joke. People will lie if they think it will help their case.
Jim Sliff has the best approach. But in buy and sell transactions I have made here, I did not do that, and have had no problems (knock on wood - OUCH! Now my head hurts). But his method is a great way for both parties to cover their ass.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 16 Jul 2015 4:09 pm
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this is crazy, written agreement for steel guitar? you guys can't be serious, there is no guarantee in life for anything, except one thing, and we all know what that is. Life can surprise and the most honest man, its a guitar for a God sake, I usually don't hold guitars, but if I do, I am aware that situation may change, if it turns out that buyer can't follow through with the deal, I just sell it to another buyer, I never even thought about taking someone to court because they pulled back from a deal....some of the guys here take that guitar selling business way too seriously...
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www.steelguitarsonline.com |
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