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Topic: An overlooked way to sound great.. |
Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2003 6:26 pm |
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| I have made a living playing"dark" sounding MSA guitars. Mine will always sound bright,glassy and much like an old Sho Bud,ZB or 60's Fender cable job if thats the sound I select. The trick is quite simple really. Use a GOOD humbucker pickup and have the coils isolated. Any pickup maker/rewinder/repair guy will do it cheaply. You will need a few switches which can be mounted under the guitar or on a leg bracket or whatever. I have each coil on a switch. and get three distinct sounds. Full humbucker,single coil nearest the changer,and single coil furthest from the changer. VERY good way to get three different sounds from your steel if you use a humbucker. I have a new Carter being made that is using a GeorgeL pickup with a 5 position switch w. humbucker/coil tap/coil isolatiuon... it should sound great. I also have used multiple pickups on my MSA guitars which worked out GREAT. If there is any interest in how I did it I would be glad to share. Its not for the faint hearted,but over the years I have had MANY other steel players shaking thier heads wondering how I got an MSA to have that bright glassy almost,Stratocaster/Telecaster ring out of an old plywood MSA. Once while using my PRO III on a gig another steel player who came to see me play regularly told me to leave it home next time and use the MSA. If you feel that multiple pickups are out of place on a steel guitar, I have a picture of Buddy Emmons years ago with about 4 of them on one of his guitars! Nobody is doing it with steel these days but it works!... Most of us that play 6 string use electrics with 2 or 3 pickups.. why not on the steel??? It works great.... bob [This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 26 December 2003 at 07:39 PM.] [This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 26 December 2003 at 07:40 PM.] |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 26 Dec 2003 11:09 pm
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| Bob, your ideas on pickups sound interesting. You can get a little of the multiple pickup sound differences by picking further down the neck for darker tone, and closer to the changer for brighter tone. I would love to try a slanted pickup with the bass string part closer to the changer for more bite, and the high string part further from the changer for a less shrill sound on them. You could get the same effect with a split pickup like some bass guitars have. |
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Marco Schouten
From:
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Posted 27 Dec 2003 5:21 am
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It would be very interesting to see a picture of it.
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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud LLG; Guyatone 6 string lap steel; John Pearse bar; Emmons bar; Evans SE200 amp
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2003 5:27 am
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| David.. you are correct on hand placement of course.I use that technique on occasion more as an effect to add a fast tone change during a song when I want to highlight some aspect of a solo or backup line.I have found however that it makes me feel uncomfortable to play in an "unnatural" hand position for any lenth of time so I never stay there very long. My coil isolating/tapping theories are used to give completely different tonal characteristics to any steel without having to adjust anything in your normal playing technique,just like a guy with a strat going from a bright "snap" with his rear pickup to a glassy "out of phase"[which is not really out of phase technically] type of tone with the rear and middle pickups together and then a big fat room filling front pickup tone full of bass yet with a pleasing high end sparkle to it. I just feel we steel players have limited ourelves a bit tonally. I wonder.. if a steel builder started making two or three pickup guitars with a wide range of tonal possibilities, would they sell? bob |
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Karlis Abolins
From:
(near) Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2003 11:39 am
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Bob, I saw an old Marlen S10 on eBay recently that had two E-66's on it. I like the idea of multiple pups on a steel. I think they would have to be much narrower than the current box style in order to get 3 pups on a guitar and get the sound capabilities similar to 6 strings.
Karlis |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 27 Dec 2003 1:07 pm
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It's a mystery to me why this hasn't been done in modern day steel guitars. Now, remember that the Stringmasters did this, of course, and probably some other nonpedal guitars of similar vintage, but no modern-day major brand of pedal steels do this. Sure, you can pick closer to the bridge, but a guitarist could do that too and still they buy guitars with 2 or 3 pickups on them.. and then they can STILL pick near the bridge if they want to for yet more colors. Pickups need to be thinner you say? That can't be much of a hurdle. Already passed that one years ago on 6-string guitars.
Would love to hear from some of the builders out there... Have you ever seriously considered this and if so why did you not pursue it? (A few possibilities come to mind: the option of swappable pickups, as in Sierras, and now MSA Millenia; of course, that's only 2 guitars and one is financially out of reach of most players; and the Profex and other similar devices that add so many color options while using the same pickup; of course guitarists have access to all those too...)
And from the players, if a guitar cost a few hundred bucks more to have the extra pickups installed at manufacture, would it be worth it to you? Would you pay for the option? I think I probably would. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2003 1:22 pm
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| I think a good idea would be a triple coil pickup with coil isolating phasing wiring. It would be easily adaptable to most steel designs without major neck redesign. On my current MSA I had to do major neck surgery to fit 3 pickups. On a previous MSA I used the original SuperSustain pickup,had it rewound and the coils seperated for 3 distinct sounds via switches. The sound was great. Very Fender like.... IF you like Fender sound ... not everyone does.... bob |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2003 3:03 pm
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My ZB original pickup has a 3-way selector switch. Each position is a different tap on the coil. The first one is like 8k, the second about 12k, and the 3rd about 20k. I may be off on the numbers 'cause it's been a while since I measured, but each position is very different sounding and the variety is real useful. From real bright and sparkly to real fat and midrangy.
Brad Sarno
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2003 3:16 pm
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| Thats what I mean Brad!.. I had an old Sho Bud with a similar set up[ 2 way switch from factory] and the sound was SWEET!.. I wonder why it isn't done more with modern steels. It really is a very easy thing to accomplish I would think bob |
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Ad Kersten
From:
Beek en Donk, The Netherlands
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Posted 27 Dec 2003 3:27 pm
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Hi Bob,
You can add a fourth sound if you connect the two single coils "out of phase". It will be a much thinner sound with less volume though....
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Zumsteel S12U
Yo, Man! homepage
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2003 4:18 pm
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| Ad.. I'm way ahead of you my friend!,,, On my MSA w/3 pickups, I ran two out of phase and one in on occasion.. It sounded like a 54 Stratocaster w.the sustain of a steel guitar... real sweet bob |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 28 Dec 2003 5:22 am
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I was wondering, does practice still count as an overlooked way to sound better ?
t |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 28 Dec 2003 10:57 am
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Tony, we don't need no stinkin' practice. We just keep buying more gear. It's the modern way.  |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 28 Dec 2003 11:14 am
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| I figure if I don't keep buying more gear, then the terrorists win... |
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Tony Dingus
From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2003 8:04 pm
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School me on this. Can you use a George L E66 or 10-1 to do this?
Tony |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2003 3:40 pm
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| Tony.. You would need to have it done,but any pro pickup builder can do it. The 10-1 is almost identical to the George L I ordered on my Carter. This is what John Fabian at Carter told me. For some reason George L does not list them on thier site,but I have one going into a brand new guitar. I used this pickup for MANY years on my MSA and it was terrific.It has Full humbucker/tapped humbucker/full single/tapped single/two singles out of phase....[the out of phase is very thin and may not be of much use]. Five different sounds on one pickup ... pretty nice..Anyway It uses a 5 way switch mounted to the underside of the guitar and if you like the 10-1 you may really like a similar pickup that will give several other sonic "flavors" as well bob [This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 30 December 2003 at 03:41 PM.] |
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Tony Dingus
From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2003 9:06 pm
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Thanks Bob, I might have to check one of them out. Happy New Years
Tony |
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