Steel, Mandolin and Carpal Tunnel

Greg Milton · From: Benalla, Australia

Hey everyone, I've been playing steel for quite a few years now and have never had any issues with any type of pain while I'm playing, even though I play for hours and hours!

About a year and a half ago I got a mandolin, and after six months of playing it I started to get some symptoms of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome - numb fingers while playing, perpetual wrist pain when I wasn't - although I didn't immediately make the connection with the mandolin. It got to the point where it was affecting my steel playing, with my fingers so numb I couldn't pick the strings or hold the bar properly.

Anyway, I decided to stop playing mandolin for about six months and the pain completely disappeared. About two months ago I picked up the mandolin and started playing again, really concentrating on my technique to try and keep my wrists loose and straight, and for three or so weeks it seemed to work and there was no pain. However, now the pain and numbness is back with a vengeance.

Now I know what most steel-lovers would say - give the mando the flick ASAP! But I really love the mandolin, and it captures my imagination almost as much as the steel. I love that it is so portable, and that I can play it standing up, but also it has encouraged me to start reading music and following instructional books like I've never been able to do with any other instrument (including steel). Basically, I've got two infatuations now, but one of them is reducing my enjoyment of the other.

Has anyone got any advice, especially those who play mandolin too or have had CTS issues?

Lee Dassow · From: Jefferson, Georgia USA

Greg I'm having that problem too. Not quit that bad though. My brother who had carpal tunnel recently told me to try flax seed oil for about a month.
So I started taking four pills a day. He said if that
doesn't work see a hand doctor. I play a little mandolin also. Great instrument. Tennessee Lee
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James Holland · From: Alabama, USA

If you don't own a professional grade instrument, its likely that its not setup optimally, requiring much more hand strength and pressure to play. Even if it is a professional grade instrument, its still possible it has moved around a bit, and needs a professional setup. Mandolins can cost a bit more to setup than a guitar, and there's fewer luthiers that know how to do a precision mandolin setup. A setup with light gauge strings can make a huge difference, but at the cost of volume. Light gauge is a good way to go for beginning, or infrequent use.

2nd, if you plan to play mandolin seriously, like 2-3 hour gigs, you will need to work up to it physically, like playing an upright. I had to fill in for a mandolin player one season, and my guitar chops didn't cut it at all. I also found that the neck profile and width made a big difference in how long I could play (I own several). It took me months to work up to playing a full gig. I also discovered if I didn't play it regularly, that strength disappeared fast. I try to play mine weekly just to keep enough chops to play a few tunes per set.

Twice the strings and pressure, half the neck width, half the fret spacing, etc., may make a mandolin the most physically demanding instrument to play.

Tony Dingus · From: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA

If you need surgery, don't put it off. I had it on my right hand before it got bad and I was back to playing in 2 days, that's when they took the cast off.

Tony

James Jacoby · From: Ohio, USA

I had to have carpal surgery,on my left hand, a couple years ago. I had the numbness, and the wrist pain. The numbness was fixed, but I still have the wrist pain, which turned out to be arthritis. Now, my right wrist is bothering me. When I try to do fast rolls, I get a pain in the top left of my hand, when I use my index finger! Arthur, again? Seems to loosen up, after I use it for a half hour, or so. I'm going to experiment with lowering my guitar, a bit, to change my wrist angle. Hope that works! -Jake-

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

mandos are really neat. i just got a real cheap rogue, but it plays and sounds surprisingly good.
just slowly learning but i love that they're so small and light.
thanks for the warning, though. luckily i'm too lazy to go crazy practicing.

Niels Andrews · From: Salinas, California, USA

Carpal Tunnel is why I started playing Steel. I have had surgery on both hands. As someone else mentioned don't put off surgery. I have a friend that waited and the nerve died so his right hand is pretty worthless. One thing I have noticed ten years later is the strength never returned to what it was prior,at least it feels that way.
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Scott Duckworth · From: Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies

Something to think about with hand numbness....

If it is the thumb, index, and middle finger, it's probably carpal tunnel.

If it is the ring and pinky fingers, it's probably due to a nerve being trapped in your elbow.

A lot of doctors will generally assign all numbness to carpal tunnel, which can be fixed easily. But, if in fact, you have the numbness associated with the elbow, most rehab and surgery does not work. Surgery for that problem takes a year to get over, and as stated, usually doesn't work.

I have the later in my left hand, which is why I switched to steel. Rehab didn't work, and my doc advised against surgery until I can't stand the pain anymore.
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Niels Andrews · From: Salinas, California, USA

I should add at his point, I am very happy with the results of the Carpal Tunnel Surgery. I feel the same way about Carpal Tunnel that I do my hip replacement, I don't know why I waited so long except I was scared of the surgery. I never have warmed up to the thought of being cut on. But in all cases the pain ended the day of surgery. I highly recommend it, I tried all the braces ans shots and drugs, those are just delay tactics at best. I hope this helps someone.
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Greg Milton · From: Benalla, Australia

Thanks everyone for your replies - it gives me something to think about.

James H - I own an Eastman MD 315, so it's no 1923 Gibson Lloyd Loar but it is fair quality for a Pacific Rim mando and easy to fret. I have bought some light strings and may try that later when the pain subsides a bit. The weird thing is that I understand the fretting hand would be under pressure, but it's the picking hand as well.

Scott - the numbness is in the thumb, index and middle fingers, so looks like CTS. Sorry to hear you have the more complicated affliction.

I think I need to consider whether I want to continue to play the mandolin and probably have to have surgery, or just stick to the steel - it looks to be as simple as that. The cost and the waiting time for the surgery will be a consideration.

Thanks again, all!

Dan Klotz · From: Houston, Texas

I had CTS problems about 15 years ago. I didn't play steel then, just guitar. Here's what helped me:

1. I went to a chiropractor that adjusted my wrist and elbow as well as my spine. HE said the nerve was impinged at the elbow even though the pain was in the wrist. He gave me some exercises to do, and I slept with a wrist brace on. I don't know if I'd say he "cured" it, because it does flare up every now and then, but it is definitely managed to the point where it doesn't bother me and I don't think about it. The worst that it gets these days is that it will get numb/tingly when I sleep sometimes.

2. I completely over hauled my playing at that point. I used to play with too much pressure. I learned to play loose and relaxed, using only the minimal amount of pressure necessary. That part was actually a blessing in disguise because it helped my playing a ton.

3. I went to a massage therapist that was very good. He did this technique (forget what it's called) where he pinched the skin and rolled it. It hurt like the dickens when he was doing it, but it did help. He did some trigger point too.

4. I used to do hot water soaks, especially on gig days. It's doesn't cure anything, but It'll make it feel better for a while. I used Epsom salt in the water but I don't really know if that did anything.. lol

And just for the record, what didn't help me.
- accupuncture
- anti-imflammatory drugs
-grip and strengthening exercises the orthopedic doctor gave me.. they actually made it WORSE !
....see the exercise below to exercise the OPPOSITE muscle group. (the extensors, not the flexors)

Here's some helpful links:
http://www.musicianshealth.com/ - good info

exercises- read up about the muscle imbalance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHmDk3NEdeU- the rubber band exercise my chiro showed me

http://flextend.com/- I used this and I felt like it was even better than the rubber band exercise.

technique book
I worked out of this book to change my playing. It deals with playing "effortlessly"
http://www.guitarprinciples.com/

Good luck. Hope this helps.
Feel free to send a PM if I can help. [/u]
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Johnne Lee Ables · From: Minnesota, USA

Mack Quinney · From: Texas, USA

Greg,
Had the same issue when trying to learn the fiddle.

Had both carpal tunnel surgery and ulnar nerve surgery on my left hand and arm. I would say that my use is about 95% (mostly strength in my hand that is not 100%). Don't have any issues when playing the steel now. Before the surgery, I was like you, my hand would fall asleep.

I have not gone back to the fiddle. I would love too, but every time I pick it up, my hand falls asleep, so I'll just stick with steel, piano and guitar for now.

Good luck to you.
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Karol Wainscott · From: Kokomo , Indiana

Had the same problem about 5 years ago. I ended up having carpal tunnel surgery . Good thing is I was playing again only 1 1/2 weeks later . I play steel , mandolin and guitar. Left hand got so bad I couldn't sleep at night . Had to do something. Best decision I could have made.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

James Holland · From: Alabama, USA

Eastmans are usually setup ok. Fwiw, i found the setup was critical to allow less effort, but still allow aggressive playing. Just a small amount of adjustment like .020" at the bridge was huge. Theres also a difference in extended squeezing for chords, or pounding fingers for breakdowns and fiddle tunes that is a function of your technique. The former kills me but the later is easier for me after developing a lighter faster touch. Fiddle shouldnt require much effort at all. Id look at stance grip and position if fiddling is causing issues. Also see if you are pounding your fingers instead of laying them down on the fingerboard. Or you could just be tensing up from the cringe response to new fiddler sounds Wink

Nigel Mullen · From: Cassilis, New Brunswick, Canada

I had the same problem recently and my doctor suggested that I wear a Carpel Tunnel wrist brace at night. These are available over the counter at most drug stores. I am noticing a real improvement already and I've only been wearing the brace for a week or so. I also changed the height of my guitar a bit at his suggestion. He told me that surgery is not always necessary to fix the problem just some minor changes may work.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Joseph Napolitano · From: New Jersey, USA

Vitamin B6 has helped my carpal tunnel symptoms considerably.

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