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Topic: Does E9 Copedent Affect C6 Pedal and Knee Lever Placement? |
Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2015 1:17 pm |
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OK, dumb question of the day for all y'all who need a laugh break. I have only played E9. I never thought this day would come, but I'm getting increasingly interested in jumping into C6. After all, I'm in Texas. For now, I'm thinking 8 pedals and 5 knee levers, but that's flexible based upon my level of ignorance. My E9 copedent has 3 pedals and 5 knee levers. Does the E9 pedal and knee lever placement affect the C6 setup? It seems like it should, but since I have no C6 experience other than noodling on a friend's D-10, it's time to ask the experts. My E9 copedent is:
RKL lowers Es
RKR raises Es
LKL lowers 2 and 9
LKR raises 1 & 2 and lowers 6
LKV lowers 5 and 10
I'm also open to C6 copedent suggestions based on the E9, above.
Mucho thanks,
_________________
Hey, mister, how do you pedal that thing anyway?
"The worst an honest man can do is make an honest mistake" - Augustus McCrae
"From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth 'til death, we travel between the eternities" - Prentiss Ritter
Too many steels, amps & other stuff, and an open mind. I have tube amp bias.
Last edited by Jim Cooley on 11 Jun 2015 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 11 Jun 2015 1:20 pm
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Typically (but not always), the left knee levers don't really affect the C6 pedals. You normally take your leg out of the left knee cluster, and move your leg to the right of them to reach the C6 pedals. You would probably put 2 C6 changes on RKL and RKR as that leg stays put. The E9 copedent itself has no, or very little, bearing on the C6 neck.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Jun 2015 2:20 pm
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If you have an MSA, you can easily reach all the pedals while staying in the left knee cluster.
Richard is right, one doesn't really affect the other. I currently have two pedals doing double duty, as I have 5 pedals on each neck but only 8 pedals. 4 and 5 are noticeably stiffer, but not unreasonably so.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2015 6:20 pm
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Richard & Lane - I appreciate the information.
I don't have a D-10, at least not yet. I do have the ok to buy another steel. I have to decide whether it will be a single or double neck. If I decide on a D-10, I need to settle on the C6 copedent.
I have noticed in my limited C6 noodling that a couple of pedals did double duty. Several pulls are considered standard on E9. Aren't there also standard pulls on the C6 neck? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 11 Jun 2015 6:34 pm
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Check out this link:
http://b0b.com/tunings/stars.html#C6jd
Jimmy Day's is the most basic and considered by many to be "standard". But we all know there is no such thing as "standard".
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2015 6:43 pm
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| Richard - That gave me a "duh" moment. I knew those were linked to the forum. I just forgot. Jimmy Day's and Buddy Emmons's C6 pedal copedents are very similar. Great place to start. Of course you're right about there not being "standards." My E9 is not exactly universal. Thanks again. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Jun 2015 7:59 pm
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If you're gonna go completely custom, I'd argue for an extra few levers and put P5 on a knee. By doing that, you eliminate almost all of the double-footing that goes with the C6th neck.
I apologize for it not being in chart form, but I haven't figured out how to do that on mobile.
My setup (D on 1st):
No LKL (I'd probably give it a reverse P6)
LKV: 4&8 up ½ to Bb
LKR: 5 down ½ to F#, 9 up ½ to F# and 10 up to D (standard P5)
P4: 4&8 up 1 to B
P5: 2 up ½ to F, 6 down to Eb (std. P6)
P6: 3 up 1 to D, 4 up to B (P7)
P7: 1 up ½ to Eb, 7 up ½ to C#, 9 down ½ to E, 10 down 1½ to A (P
P8: 3&7 up ½ to C#
RKL: 4 down ½ to Ab & 8 down 1 to G
RKR lowers 3 to B
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2015 1:53 pm
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Lane - Like this?
 |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jun 2015 2:12 pm
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Exactly like that, Jim.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2015 6:06 pm
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| Lane - the knee levers are in addition to and separate from the E9 knee levers, right? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jun 2015 7:45 pm
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Yes, at least the left knees. I'll be home about lunchtime, I'll post their locations on the guitar tomorrow.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Patrick Ickes
From:
Upper Lake, CA USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2015 8:26 pm
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Since you are ordering a new rig, check out the "Crawford Cluster". I had it on my Zum Steel and it worked very well. No need for double duty levers.
Patrick |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jun 2015 8:29 pm
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How would clustering avoid double duty levers?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Patrick Ickes
From:
Upper Lake, CA USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2015 9:10 pm
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There was another group of knee levers to the right of the E9 left knee levers. Made it easier to get to the C6 pedals 5-9.
I don't remember the copedant on the Zum, but it was a D10, 9 and 9 with the Crawford Cluster. I ordered it from Bruce at the Dallas show 2000.
Come to think of it, the right knee levers probably shared E9/C6.
Either way, the cluster was a cool deal, and if I was looking to invest in a new rig, I would go that route.
Patrick |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jun 2015 10:41 pm
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Ahh, that's not the Crawford Cluster.
The cluster is when you have staggered levers (inside/outside or front/rear) on the same neck.
That's just a second group of levers
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jun 2015 10:46 pm
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Here's a picture of my guitar from below.
The C6th LKR is between pedals 7&8 with the vertical above 6&7.
The E9th LKR is between 4&5, and the LKL is between 2&3.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2015 7:30 am
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I've heard of the Crawford cluster for a long time, but never understood what it was.
Lane - The photo helps a lot. I need to pay close attention to undercarriage mechanics when I watch others play C6, instead of just admiring their work. Your Zum looks like a 8 pedal, 7 KL guitar, or am I missing a knee lever? Does your RKR share E9 and C6?
I have two SD-10s. My Derby has 5 knee levers; the LDG has four. My E knee levers are on the right because the first steel I had, back in the mid '80s, was a MSA. I believe they came from the factory that way unless otherwise specified. I got used to that. In the meantime, the industry I worked in crashed and I had to put everything on hold while I worked more than one job and got my family back on our feet. Years later, I decided I was going to learn to play this thing or die trying. It might work out to be both. I found a teacher and started taking lessons. My MSA's pedals were Day setup. My teacher's pedals are Emmons. We sometimes got confused with translation. I started going to steel shows again, and playing the guitars at all the booths. None of the manufacturers have Day setup steels. So, I switched my A and C pedals. If not for those two situations, I'd still be playing Day. I still think about it occasionally, but I'm afraid I've gone to far to switch now. That's a little off topic, but maybe it explains my copedent.
Thanks again, everybody - very enlightening. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 Jun 2015 8:07 am
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Both right knees do double duty. In addition to the C6th changes, RKL raises 1 to G and lowers 6 to F#, and RKR lowers 2 to C# (half stop at D and 9 to C#.
Yes, mine is 8 & 7. I'd considered a C6th LKL, but didn't get it when, like the advice I give here now and then, I couldn't think of a useful change for it, and Mike Auldridge had no idea, either.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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