| Author |
Topic: Question for you double neck players? |
Bill Davison
From:
Just far enough away from Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 26 May 2015 4:15 pm |
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| What is the purpose of the two necks? I know that one has the E9th and one has the C6th tuning. What will the C6 tuning do that the E9 won't? I'm just now getting a handle on the E9th tuning and that's hard enough. I can't imagine trying to go from playing the E9th to the C6th. How difficult is it to switch between the two? |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 26 May 2015 4:54 pm
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Top players have shown that most everything you can do on C6 you can do on E9.... you just have to find the chords.
That said. .. you would play the same things totally differently.
The timbre of the C6 neck is rich...the E9th neck is twangy.
The C6 neck elicits a different touch and direction.
I find the 6th neck is intuitive to play just using the bar...and the pedal changes more for setting chords than used in passing tones. The pedals in E9 can be used for embellishment. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 26 May 2015 5:40 pm
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Yes, the timbre is different, the range is different (unless extended E9), and different (musical) things lay out more easily and directly on one versus the other. Much music (but not all) can be played on either neck/tuning, but with different amounts of effort required to produce it.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Bill Davison
From:
Just far enough away from Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 26 May 2015 5:44 pm
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| I became curious because I was watching Sez Adamson on YouTube and all his songs are done on the C6th. I haven't seen him play one song on the E9th. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 26 May 2015 5:47 pm
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Switching between the two isn't really a problem, because it's not that hard to remember what falls where on each neck.
To paraphrase what Tom and Jim just said, because the changes do very different things on each neck, each neck will both make it easier to express certain styles/lines of thought AND tend to frame the next style/line of thought.
So what you're thinking will influence which neck you choose, which will influence what you're thinking, which will influence which neck you're on. It's like a feedback loop.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 26 May 2015 7:11 pm
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| According to published reports, Joaquin Murphey considered the E9 neck a "gimmick." |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 26 May 2015 7:32 pm
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The C6th has lower notes. If you play a standard D-10, you have to go to the back neck to play notes that a 6-string guitarist has on his lowest string. The E9th has 5 strings per octave. C6th has fewer strings (wider intervals) in the low octaves, which is why it can go lower.
The E9th has several pedals and levers that pull strings to unison, a popular if somewhat "gimmicky" effect. It also pulls strings in octaves, which is very useful in music with simple major and minor chords.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 27 May 2015 4:21 am
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E9th is like "Checkers" - C6th is like "Chess"
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Jerry Jones |
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Lee Warren
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 27 May 2015 7:27 am
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| Jerry Jones wrote: |
| E9th is like "Checkers" - C6th is like "Chess" |
Great description, Jerry.
I may have to borrow that one! 
Lee |
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Bill Davison
From:
Just far enough away from Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 27 May 2015 8:23 am
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| This might seem like a dumb question, but I don't know the answer to it. So, can a single neck guitar that's tuned to E9 be tuned to C6? Or is there something special about a C6 tuned guitar. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 27 May 2015 8:27 am
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It can be "converted" to C6, which implies more than just "retuning" the guitar. You'll need to change the functions (and possibly the number) of the pedals and knee levers, plus probably swap out at least some of the nut rollers to accommodate larger-gauge strings.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 27 May 2015 8:51 am
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What Jim said. 3&4 works out to 6&2, so the conversion wouldn't be hard, but the underside will want rerodding, and you'd need to buy a couple pull rods and bellcranks.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 27 May 2015 8:55 am
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| Jerry Jones wrote: |
| E9th is like "Checkers" - C6th is like "Chess" |
Lol, well said Jerry
C6th neck is the fun neck and E9th is the money neck.
There are some songs or intros that would be difficult on E9th but easy on C6th and of course visa versa. I use C6th for a lot of George Straight stuff, All My Ex's, Ace in the Whole, Right or Wrong, just to name a few but lots more.
I thought once about going to single 10 for weight reasons but would sure miss C6th, besides that, it makes people think you are better when you have 20 strings instead of 10, well, or maybe not.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Bill Davison
From:
Just far enough away from Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 27 May 2015 9:04 am
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WoW! I think I'll just work on getting more proficient on the E9th and forget about the C6th for now.
Thanks for all the educational information. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 27 May 2015 9:11 am
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Because I have been playing Universal for so long, I often find myself showing D10 or S10 players how you can play a ton of C6th stuff on the E9th neck by simply lowering your E's to Eb (Makes an open B6th Tuning), and/or playing out of the A+B pedals down position (Makes an open A6th).
String 9-D on an S10 or D10 E9th neck basically peforms your Pedal-6 function of the 6th neck.
With E's lowered the B-pedal brings your 6th to a 7th.
The A-pedal can be used much like Pedal-7 of the 6th neck.
You use your F-lever to get your Diminished and Augmented positions as needed.
You can play pretty much any Western Swing song on E9th and sound pretty much exactly like a C6th player would.
The one biggest misconception I continually run across, is that the 6th neck is harder than the E9th neck. I would say just the opposite. The 6th neck is super easy compared to E9th in my opinion. It is way more forgiving to slight tuning inconsistancies than E9th, and the "pockets" for playing cool lil' Scooby-Dooby licks are all over the place. You get to move the bar around a bit more too, which is fun.
You just have to have someone give you a few lessons and you can be playing any Western Swing song on the E9 neck.
I play mainly Traditional/Honky-Tonk-Country, 70's Country-Rock, Western Swing from all era's, Rock-a-Billy, and Jam-Band style gigs, and use the 9th/6th tunings about 50/50 on any given gig, depending on the band.
With that said, I will defer any/all hard-core Jazz related inquiries, and how they apply to 9th/6th tunings, to those more qualified than myself. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 27 May 2015 10:26 am
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I totally agree Pete, the C6th neck is much for forgiving to miss strings and slight tunings discrepancies. I still say the C6th is easier than E9th for certain type music. All My Ex's can be kicked off almost perfect with just one pedal on C6th and yet on E9th it is a little harder. There are some C6th sounds that you just can't get on E9th with regular tuning or I can't find them anyway. One example is Over Night Mail by George. It may be on E9th but I can't find it.
I'll never do without my C6th unless it just to the point that I can't pick it up anymore.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 27 May 2015 10:45 am
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| Bill Davison wrote: |
| WoW! I think I'll just work on getting more proficient on the E9th and forget about the C6th for now. |
If you're really curious about C6, why not get a little 6-string lap steel, string it up E-C-A-G-E-C (high to low) and check the tuning out.
Everything transfers over quite nicely to the pedal steel if you eventually decide to go the double-neck route. Plus, there is a myriad of teaching materials available for 6-string C6 tuning.
6-string lap steels can be quite a bargain on eBay if you do your homework. Among my favorites is this late 1940s Gibson Century 6 that I picked up for a winning bid of $285.19 on eBay last spring:
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Glen Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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John Russell
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 27 May 2015 11:11 am E9 or C6?
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I play S12U and do All My Ex's, Ace in the Hole, Right or Wrong on with no loss of voicings or tone. I get the intro to All My Exes with the Es lowered (fret 10) for the first three beats, then go down to fret 5 with pedals A and B in E9 mode for the rest. My standard response to those who ask if I can get all the C6 sounds on my 12-string is "no, but probably 90% of it." I'll settle for that. For those who don't already know, S12U is basically an E9 neck with two additional strings.
Much of what I hear played on the C6 neck sounds dissonant to me and more hokum than music. That said, there are some great players who amaze me with their play on C6 so I'm not saying it's irrelevant. Before I say that, I'll have to pony up and buy a D-10 to see what I've been missing. I've been playing S12U for about 20 years now, after nearly 20 years on an E9 single neck. I'm pretty comfortable with my setup and not ready to step outside my comfort zone--yet.
Technically, I get one additional voicing of a 6th chord via my E to F# knee lever, a change not too common. The chord is formed with pedals A and B engaged along with the F# change. Unless you strum across the strings, most of us only get three-note chords so there are plenty of chord voicings on E9 with the standard setup. And there's plenty of sweetness available on E9 you just can't do (or do very well) on C6. |
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John Russell
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 27 May 2015 11:22 am Curly Chalker
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| Wow, Glen--thanks for that little reminder of what a great talent Curly Chalker was! I'm pretty sure that Chalker, unlike most steel players, had his E9 on the rear neck and C6 in front. If you'll surf around, you'll see this and notice--depending on the video resolution--that the strings on the front neck are a bit thicker than on the rear. RIP, Curly, you left us way too soon. |
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Bill Davison
From:
Just far enough away from Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 27 May 2015 11:39 am
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Jack Hanson wrote:
| Quote: |
| If you're really curious about C6, why not get a little 6-string lap steel, string it up E-C-A-G-E-C (high to low) and check the tuning out. |
That's a great idea Jack. I happen to have a 6-string lap that I started with years ago. I had it tuned to E7. I'll dig it out, re-tune it to C6 and see what happens |
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Bill Davison
From:
Just far enough away from Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 27 May 2015 11:42 am
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| Speaking of laptops: I notice that Doug Beaumier plays the laptop. I wonder what tuning he uses? |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 27 May 2015 12:24 pm
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Curley is on E9th. His necks were reversed on his steels.
Curley was great on either neck but that is definitely E9th.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 27 May 2015 12:27 pm
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I use the C6 neck for playing Western Swing and jazz. The tuning is set up to play major 7ths, 13ths & 6ths. The E9 tuning is better for straight ahead country. I must add that I learned to play a lot of Western Swing on my E9 neck when I played my ShoBud ProI S10. I got help from Jeff Newman, Lloyd Green and from Scotty's newsletter. I still prefer to play "Panhandle Rag" and "San Antonio Rose" (thank you, Lloyd Green) on my E9 neck, though.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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