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Topic: Red Rhode's Tuning |
Glen Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 21 May 2015 9:36 am |
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| As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've been listening to Red Rhodes' live album recorded at the Palomino. I understand that he used an Eb tuning. Is that true? Yesterday I tried to duplicate some of the licks played on Kentucky Woman, but the tuning seems lower than on my steel. What do I do? Tune down to Eb or are there other things I need to do with the pedals and levers? I really want to learn that stuff! The recording is on this album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNhKZzi36rM |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 21 May 2015 10:33 am
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His Eb copedant is in the book by Winnie Winston. I have no scanner, sorry.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 21 May 2015 12:17 pm
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| It was not an E9 tuning simply tuned down. It was an Eb6 and more like a C6 tuning tuned up. He had 5 pedals and 4 levers as I recall and it had common E9 type pedal moves as well on a couple pedals. More like a 10 string universal really. Didn't go very low though. Red made it work on all kinds of music. He told me he tuned it to Eb so the common keys would not fall on the 5th,7th and 12th frets which he felt had weak fundamentals due to the harmonic nodes found on those frets. |
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Glen Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 21 May 2015 4:41 pm
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| So, then can I just tune my C6 neck up to Eb6, fix my pedals and Knee levers accordingly and keep my E9 neck the way it is? |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Matthew Dawson
From:
Portland Oregon, USA
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Alan Bidmade
From:
Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Posted 22 May 2015 10:35 am
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Red did advise caution to anyone trying to copy his set-up!
_________________
Ben-Rom #017 'Lorelei', Guild D25, Epiphone 'Joe Pass', Roland 40XL, Hilton VP
First name Alan, but known as Nick |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 22 May 2015 10:51 am Diatonic Tuning
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Just got home from scanning the page in Winnie's book. Wrong format! I will try again tomorrow.
To play constantly one fret above the guitars, must not have been too easy in my opinion.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 May 2015 12:26 pm Re: Diatonic Tuning
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| Joachim Kettner wrote: |
Just got home from scanning the page in Winnie's book. Wrong format! I will try again tomorrow.
To play constantly one fret above the guitars, must not have been too easy in my opinion. |
Should't be an issue if you learned the tuning. Several people tune the E9 to Eb9 and D9. I've known some that have tuned their C6 to B6, D6 and of course, Bb6. It just takes some getting used to.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ben Elder
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 22 May 2015 8:39 pm
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I thought someone once posted that his pedals were reversed--not the Emmons-Day/ABC-CBA business--but that pedals-up what what the rest of us know as pedals-down and depressing the pedals lowered the pitch.
True...or Red herring?
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"Gopher, Everett?" |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 23 May 2015 12:26 am
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_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Ben Elder
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 23 May 2015 2:21 pm
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(I've had at least a half-dozen copies of the WW book over the years--FlexiDisc and CD editions, cover prices from $6.95 to $29.95...) Is that the only setup he used ever? He lived 20+ years after the book was published and played for more years before.
Red was a mechanical and electronic genius, and from all reports, an inveterate and visionary tinkerer. He played lots of different instruments over the years. I can't imagine that pedals came in and he locked down a lifelong setup on the various Fenders, ZBs, MCI, Dekley and who knows what else?
Maybe the longtime LA guys who worked with him and/or hung around the shop can confirm or deny my absurd pedal anecdote?
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"Gopher, Everett?" |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 25 May 2015 3:36 am
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| Ben Elder wrote: |
I thought someone once posted that his pedals were reversed--not the Emmons-Day/ABC-CBA business--but that pedals-up what what the rest of us know as pedals-down and depressing the pedals lowered the pitch.
True...or Red herring? |
True, if we're talking about the great Sonny Curtis. |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 25 May 2015 6:55 am
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Don't know the answer to that one, Ben...
He did have a unique p/u for a while, though...
It was wired to be used with two amps, and had odd numbered strings going to a left amp, and even numbered strings going to a right amp.
Very cool sound... |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 25 May 2015 10:48 am
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At least I know that he engages the E to Eb lever when he goes to F- minor here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBQUvL0RQY8
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 25 May 2015 10:58 am
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or at least something that sounds like it.  |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 25 May 2015 10:59 am
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I was fortunate enough to see Red with Nesmith, along with Ed Black with Linda Ronstadt in concert. I only knew Red from his work on Freddy Weller's "Games People Play" album at the time. I saw them 2 nights in a row, and still remember the show like it was yesterday.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 25 May 2015 11:19 am
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And a very nice acoustic guitar solo from John Jorgenson too. |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 26 May 2015 9:32 am
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I got my first pedal steel from Red back in 1976, a red, wood neck ShoBud ProI S10 with 3/4 pedals/knees for $750. I played that guitar professionally from 1977 to 1989. When I bought it, he showed me a LDG and said it would cost $850. When I told him that it seemed reasonable he said "Don't you want to dicker with me over the price?" I said I didn't like dickering, and he said "You're a man after my own heart" and showed me the red one. I regret selling it, but I wanted to play C6, so I traded for a 1965 ProIII. I asked if he gave lessons, and Red said "Son, if you need lessons, you shouldn't be playing pedal steel". He did show me how to play "Over The Rainbow", though. I saw him play with Mike Nesmith at McCabe's, where I worked, several times, and he played a Fender 400, originally a left handed steel, which he converted to right handed. He used his diatonic copedant and tuning. He was most famous in the rock world for doubling the power of any amp you gave him. A real genius and a great guy!
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Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 26 May 2015 10:58 am
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| Jack Aldrich wrote: |
| "Son, if you need lessons, you shouldn't be playing pedal steel". |
i love that!!
it implies the pioneering spirit that many steel players had to have at first. of course i understand that now with the available knowledge everywhere, new serious students can forge ahead much faster. but there is something about the earlier more personal drive that many had that developed new licks and a soulful attachment to their steel.
the pro lll was more likely a '75. |
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Glen Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 26 May 2015 10:49 pm
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| Thanks for the replies, everyone and thanks very much Joachim Kettner for the chart. Sounds like Red was a very experimental kind of guy to say the least. I think I'll just try tuning the E9 neck down for now and see If I can make heads or tails of it. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 May 2015 12:43 am
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| Ben Elder wrote: |
I thought someone once posted that his pedals were reversed--not the Emmons-Day/ABC-CBA business--but that pedals-up what what the rest of us know as pedals-down and depressing the pedals lowered the pitch.
True...or Red herring? |
It may be true of someone else. In the back of the Winston book (which I can't flatten enough to scan without destroying it) is an Ernie Hagar copedent which stands in A6 with the A & B pedals lowering the strings. When you consider how often the usual "pedals down" is a starting point, this is by no means illogical and I can well imagine someone as enquiring as Red Rhodes trying it too.
It's always made me wonder if such a setup could form the basis of an A6 uni. We already have C6, B6 and Bb6, so it's only one step further.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 27 May 2015 9:08 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| Ben Elder wrote: |
I thought someone once posted that his pedals were reversed--not the Emmons-Day/ABC-CBA business--but that pedals-up what what the rest of us know as pedals-down and depressing the pedals lowered the pitch.
True...or Red herring? |
It may be true of someone else. In the back of the Winston book (which I can't flatten enough to scan without destroying it) is an Ernie Hagar copedent which stands in A6 with the A & B pedals lowering the strings. When you consider how often the usual "pedals down" is a starting point, this is by no means illogical and I can well imagine someone as enquiring as Red Rhodes trying it too.
It's always made me wonder if such a setup could form the basis of an A6 uni. We already have C6, B6 and Bb6, so it's only one step further. |
Sonny Curtis also did this. I'm sure there are others too.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Glen Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 27 May 2015 10:24 am
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deleted
Last edited by Glen Derksen on 27 May 2015 11:00 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Glen Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 27 May 2015 10:25 am
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| Oops! double post |
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