copedent history--Jimmy Day?

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I read that that pedal Day used on 'Slowly' was split into two.
What was the pedal he used, and what two pedals did they become?
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

First off, "Slowly" was done by Bud Isaacs, not Jimmy Day, and Bud didn't split the pedals, he just had the G# to A and the B-C# on one pedal of his E tuning (E6th, I believe). Later, Jimmy and Buddy "split" the pedal (putting the 2 string changes on 2 different pedals, our A&B pedals today) of their tunings in opposite ways, which soon became our standard E9th.

In other words, our standard E-A change.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Don't feel bad if your "steel" misconception is unceremoniously "stomped upon". It's all part of the forum policing itself... Smile

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Just to finish the point, Buddy split them with the Bs to C#s on the 1st pedal and the G#s to As on the second pedal (i.e., now the most common 'AB' pedal arrangement, called the 'Emmons setup') and Jimmy split them the opposite way (BA pedals, called the 'Day setup'). Since many people use pedal B together with Pedal C, in the Day setup the C pedal comes first (left-most), so you end up with CBA, whereas with the Emmons setup, it's ABC. Some players find that their ankle rotates better one way than the other and can help determine which setup is better for you. (Had I known this in 1972, I probably would be playing Day-style today and my left ankle would thank me for it. YMMV.)

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Roger Shackelton · From: MINNESOTA (deceased)

Donny, don't take Ray's response too seriously, after all he did include a smile at the end of his message. Smile

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Yup, I mean no harm, offense, or bad karma...

It's always somewhat humorous to read the questions by those who still hold some common misconceptions. I was there once (still am about some things) and have eaten my share of crow Smile

Education is the spice of life... especially when it comes to the steel.

I'm just codependent on my copedant...

Aaron Harms · From: Missouri, USA

I know this is "kind of" Shocked

pirating the thread, but Jim brings up a point that I simply didn't know, and hadn't done enough research into...

Whenever we Fender 400 folks post to the board about a 4 pedal, E9 setup, we are typically referred to the F-A-B-Eb pedal choices.

While I'm not married to this "emmons-y" setup, I just wondered as to the reasoning behind this sort of response. Would the Day setup, again with only 4 pedals simply be backwards, or is there more to it than that?

*is prepared for the stomping* Wink

thanks again fellas.
Aaron

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Well, a fourth pedal on E9 is far from standard as yet, but certainly it's normal for a 'Day' set-up to have both the Es to F, and the Es to D# reversed (provided the E raise and lowers are on the left knee). IF that 4th pedal is the so-called 'Franklin pedal', then there may be a case for it being juxtaposed with the 4/5 string raise - I don't have that 4th pedal, so have no feelings about it either way.

I AM a proponent of the 'Day' set-up, though - and my ankle thanks me for it everyday! Very Happy

RR

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

No offense taken at all, Donny. Ask a misinformed question, you're bound to get more complete answers. Thus I have learned completely the process involved.
My question was really about 'What's the real 'A' pedal. Since two guys split it two different ways, it's a moot point.

I currently have the original pedal split in Day fashion. It just seems more natural for me and accommodates my D# and F lever changes.
My third pedal (on P0 or P1, depending on how you look at it) is a hybrid of the Franklin pedal. I would imagine it will become the basis for P4's. Right now, I think I've got it all with 3 pedals.

Thank you all for your enlightenment.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I wish however it happened that the G#->A pedal had been called the A pedal. I cannot keep from thinking of my pedal that raises to an A note as the 'A' pedal.
Beginners have such quaint ideas.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I know it's wacky. A raises B to C#. B raises G# to A.

I think it came about because steel players don't think much about the names of the notes. Unlike piano, it isn't a prerequisite to learning the instrument. Some of the best steel players don't know what notes they're playing. It's all done with mental patterns.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I've split the remaining discussion into a new topic "Knowing the Notes", since it is unreated to the "Jimmy Day" discussion.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video

Gary Witt · From: Wyoming, USA

a long time ago I had a zb custom, been without a steel for 45 years. picked a new one up and it came with a day set up. e9 3 floors and 5 knees. so how do I play nashville sys 1-2-3-4-5-5 seven and 6 at both the 3rd and 10th frets in the Key of G

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

G third fret
I: 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3
ii with A&C pedals: 9(lowered to C#), 7, 6 5, 4, 1, 3
iii with Es lowered: 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 2, 3
IV with AB pedals: 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3
V,Es lowered (7th with B pedal on 3 & 6): 10, 8, 7, (6),5, 4, 2, 1, (3)
vi with A pedal: 10, 9 (lowered), 8, 6, 5, 4, 2 (lowered), 3

On the the Tenth fret, half your chords will be more easily found at 8, but I'll include the ones on 8 and 10.
Look up Patricia Warnock's chord chart, available here on the forum
I, with AB pedals: 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3
ii 8th fret, A pedal: 10, 9(lowered), 8, 6, 5, 2(lowered a whole step), 3
ii tenth fret: 10, 9, 7, 5, 2(lowered to D), 1
iii with A pedal: 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3
IV at 8th fret: 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3
IV at 10, B pedal and 2 lowered a half: 9, 7, 6, 2, 1, 3
V: 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3 (7th at 9/2 lowered to D)
vi 8th fret Es lowered: 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3
vi 10th fret, AB pedals (string 4 with the C pedal):
10, 9(lowered), 7, 6, 5, 4(C),1, 3
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Good topic.

My A pedal is still the one that raises G#->A,
and B raises B->C#.

The Day arrangement seems to be the most ergononic,
when the F and D levers are reversed from Emmons.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I know, I know, it was years ago.

Jack Aldrich · From: Washington, USA

There was a post on this site from Buddy, a while back, that told the story of how he and jimmy got the idea for split pedals, went to their respective homes, and, the nex day discovered that Buddy had put the split on AB, and Jimmy had put them on BC.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I'm still looking for the topic in which Mr. E discusses further experiments
that may have led him back to Day pedals.

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

I still don't know exactly what to call my pedals. I guess since I play Day that starting from left, my pedals would be CBA and knees would be E-F. Am I correct or do I still not know which is which?

I'm completely off base, I call the B pedal the one that raises B's to C#, and the A pedal raises G#'s to A and the outside pedal is the C, LOL
When I work on a steel or change something for somebody, I go by numbered pedals, 1,2,3 and etc starting from left. That way, they get exactly what they what on the correct pedal.
_________________
Henry Matthews

D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.

Gary Witt · From: Wyoming, USA

thanks Lane Gray that going to get me converted to day. Ihave so many teaching aids from years ago and now can convert them to day set up. but wish I did not have the other theory stuck in my head from years ago. Smile

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

you seem to have a very busy mind, charlie.

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