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Topic: Leaving E9 because of Cindy Cashdollar |
Bas Kapitein
From:
Holland
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Posted 25 Jul 2015 4:16 am |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnKeb4p04ys
Listening to this beautiful tune by Eliza Gilkyson with Cindy Cashdollar on steel, I realize that its about time I left the E9th for a while (I might even take the strings of) and concentrate on my C6th neck.
Who can tab this solo for me and who can recommend teaching material that deals with these kinds of melodies? Never mind if it means that the pedals of the C6th are not used. What I learnt from watching the great C6 players is that they are not so much depending on the pedals, probably because they started out as lap steel players. So why not take the same route. |
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Keith Glendinning
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 25 Jul 2015 5:29 am
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Bas,
I have to agree with you. It's a great song, sung by a great singer and Cindy Cashdollar's playing is brilliant.
Keith. |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2015 7:28 am
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Just out of curiosity why do you think that can only be played on a C6th tuning?
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Bas Kapitein
From:
Holland
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Posted 28 Jul 2015 1:34 pm
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Niels, I do not even know if it is played on a C6th tuning
Cindy plays different tunings, but I am not experienced enough to even tell what she is using.
Yes I know that you can play anything on the E9th. My friend Koos Biel duplicated some of the material Emmons played on the C6, on his single neck E9th, but that’s for the masters, I am just an amateur trying to duplicate this perfect solo, and no one can help me.... |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 28 Jul 2015 3:11 pm
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Well there is no magic tuning, or secret, or shortcut. The solo is a series of notes from a musical scale. If you know the notes you want, and where they are on your guitar, you have it. What tunings give you are the location of desired notes on open strings or how a certain arrangement of a tune lays on a guitar. But for the most part the key might change but the interval of the note within the scale remains the same. Reece Anderson was a master at playing a song in different tunings and nobody being the wiser. Sometimes people would think he was playing a E9 tuning when he was playing Bb6. So stay with the tuning you know best and work on the arrangement, and when you have put the time in woodshedding that Cindy has, you might sound like her.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Adam Nero
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 28 Jul 2015 3:48 pm
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I hear open strings so, in this case, the tuning is probably gonna be important to capture that "sound."
What a player.
_________________
2 cheap dobros, several weird old lap steels, and one lifelong ticket to ride on the pedal steel struggle bus. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 28 Jul 2015 5:35 pm
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I may be wrong but this sounds like Cindy's playing her E13th neck.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 28 Jul 2015 5:41 pm
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The point I was trying to make is what you hear is not a tuning, it is Cindy Cashdollar.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Jul 2015 7:34 pm
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| Andy Volk wrote: |
| I may be wrong but this sounds like Cindy's playing her E13th neck. |
It's definitely pedal steel... and I agree that C6 is probably the neck.
_________________
New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 28 Jul 2015 8:05 pm
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| Niels Andrews wrote: |
| The point I was trying to make is what you hear is not a tuning, it is Cindy Cashdollar. |
the point bas made was that he was looking for some help toward approaching the tune perhaps with some simple tab to point him in the right direction, not a put down lecture. |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 28 Jul 2015 8:22 pm
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Not a put down at all Chris. Take the chip off your shoulder it is getting real boring.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 28 Jul 2015 8:43 pm
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| bas is looking for some help. |
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James Kerr
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 12:44 pm
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Eliza's song is in the key of G.
I don't hear anything to suggest Cindy is using Pedals.
As has been pointed out there are open strings used, so I would guess, from the number of full Minor Chords heard, Cindy is tuned to G minor.
D-G-D-G-A#-D if she used an 8 string, add 2 lower strings.
Anyone trying to play a song in the key of G on a C6th neck would be starting on the 7th Fret.
Here is a song I recorded using G Minor, there is only one Instrument the Guitar so no confusing sounds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcVEH_fo6ko
James. |
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Bas Kapitein
From:
Holland
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 2:09 pm
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Thanks Chris for the support and I think we are getting somewhere.
In my opening call for help I wanted to say, that I already discussed switching to C6th with my late friend Maurice Anderson. He offered me all the help with his online teaching whenever I was ready, I guess I waited to long..........
I dropped the reference to Maurice because it was beside the point. But look at what James wrote; G minor, than I think Bb6th, and the next thing obviously is Maurice. He could have helped me for sure, but thanks to the responders I am looking now in the right direction to start.
But still more help is welcome!
BTW James, great tune and nice “moody†shots of Scotland and Paris? |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 5:36 pm
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| James Kerr wrote: |
I don't hear anything to suggest Cindy is using Pedals.
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Pedal licks at 0:28, 0:46, 0:58, 1:06, 1:39, 2:06, etc.
The album credits list Cindy on pedal steel.
Other sources list Cindy with Eliza on pedal steel.
She's good, but she's not that good... I know pedal when I hear it.
_________________
New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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Ian
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 2:07 am
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Niels,
I like what you have to say. I've played lots of different tunings; if you can express yourself - the tuning doesn't matter. Yes, Bas wants to emulate what he heard and enjoyed, thus changing his tuning. I've found throughout my years of playing steel (lap, pedal, Dobro) that obsession is key. At this point he is looking for specifics. But your general view is something worth considering. Most importantly, Bas, keep playing and having fun.
Ian |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 4:38 am
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Getting to the "right tuning" and the "right frets" and the "right picking pattern" can go a long ways towards squelching excuses and the "I can't..." which are the root enemy.
You can.
There are two words in that sentence, only you can figure out where the work lies. |
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Adam Nero
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 8:00 am
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| Stephen Cowell wrote: |
| James Kerr wrote: |
I don't hear anything to suggest Cindy is using Pedals.
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The album credits list Cindy on pedal steel.
She's good, but she's not that good... I know pedal when I hear it. |
I'm lucky to call Cindy a friend. Here's what she had to say via email this morning 
"So yes, that's me playing non pedal in C6th tuning. Certain keys/chords allow for "pedal type" licks & movement so I can (almost) mimic a pedal steel. I never go on the Forum, but if you are, feel free to simply say that I confirmed no pedals & C6th tuning."
So, turns out, she is that good! A lot of people think she played pedal steel on Cold Roses by Ryan Adams (one of my favorite records ever), but she didn't do it there either... or anywhere ever to my knowledge.
_________________
2 cheap dobros, several weird old lap steels, and one lifelong ticket to ride on the pedal steel struggle bus. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 8:59 am
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Yes - she is that good. I can't call Cindy a friend, more of an acquaintance, but I have seen her play live a number of times including about four weeks ago with Albert Lee.
The fact she does this without pedals - which after some short attempts when she was younger she decided they weren't for her - doesn't surprise me in the least.
_________________
Mark |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 9:09 am
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| Quote: |
The album credits list Cindy on pedal steel.
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Is this from the liner notes from the actual CD? I did see on the All Credits site and in a CD review where it was erroneously stated that Cindy was playing "pedal steel," but if over the years I had a 20 dollar bill where a journalist or writer of some kind got it wrong on steel guitar nomenclature, I'd be piling up a pretty good down payment on a Mercedes.
If it is from the liner notes from the CD itself that is an egregious error, but I have some "20s" in my "account" from actual album liner notes as well. 
_________________
Mark |
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James Kerr
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 10:25 am
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Yes indeed, she is that good, and one should always keep in mind its easy to double track in the Studio to emulate Pedals, I do it myself.
James. |
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Bas Kapitein
From:
Holland
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 1:06 pm
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Thank you Adam for quoting Cindy.
Here is another quote from her, here on this forum in 2006
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Thought I'd address the "Can Cindy Cashdollar play pedal steel?" The answer is: "I WISH !!
I played Dobro for a number of years, and took up the non-pedal steel later on, just as a hobby. The offer to join Asleep At The Wheel came along in 1992, and so the timing was right to pursue both a great offer and and the instrument that fit it. There were times that I thought I would try the pedal steel ( as in Herb Steiner's post), but I never could get comfortable with the pedals and levers....it remains on my "wish list" to this day though....it's such an amazing instrument, and there's alot of amazing players out there.
In the meantime, I try to emulate the sound of it when I can, or when it seems appropriate...the Ryan Adams "Cold Roses" double CD was non pedal, as well as past Prarie Home Companion radio shows and the Van Morrison/Rod Stewart gigs this year. Because of the general population's confusion of the instrument, my work is usually referred to as "pedal steel".
Because of my own confusion, it's not!....but, maybe, someday.
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 2:51 pm
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Bas, may I make a suggestion. Tablature is not rocket science. Once you know the tuning, set up your page with the chord progression. Then take one phrase at a time and find the notes on your guitar. Write them in and move on. With a song this slow it makes for a great lesson.
_________________
Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 9:25 pm
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| James Kerr wrote: |
Yes indeed, she is that good, and one should always keep in mind its easy to double track in the Studio to emulate Pedals, I do it myself.
James. |
Well then... if that's what I'm hearing... I was mistaken... and that's cheating! Sounds great.
_________________
New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 31 Jul 2015 8:53 am
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| Stephen Cowell wrote: |
| James Kerr wrote: |
Yes indeed, she is that good, and one should always keep in mind its easy to double track in the Studio to emulate Pedals, I do it myself.
James. |
Well then... if that's what I'm hearing... I was mistaken... and that's cheating! Sounds great. |
If that makes you feel better about it...
I'm sure Adam Nero doesn't want to keep getting a hold of Cindy about the track, but I would find it very unlikely that she double tracked or overdubbed her guitar to come up with what might be perceived as pedal steel effects.
_________________
Mark |
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