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Topic: horseshoe style pickups |
Steven Cummings
From:
Texas
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Posted 20 Apr 2015 3:55 pm |
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When looking on youtube at some of the earlier lap steel players such as Roland Peachy and others in Felix Mendelsons Hawaiian Orchestra some of the steelers had horseshoe pickups but not on Rickenbacher guitars. Anyone have any info on these other horseshoe style pickups? It appears Rickenbacher wasn't the only one out there making them.   
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 20 Apr 2015 5:04 pm
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| I know that Epiphone made horseshoe pickups for a while in the '30s. I'm not familiar with the make of the two guitars in the videos I saw that had horseshoes. I've read that Peachy's triple was made by "Abbott", and also that he made it himself. Either way, I suspect that it and the lap steel were custom made and used Rickenbacher or Epiphone pickups. Just a guess, though. |
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Steven Cummings
From:
Texas
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Posted 20 Apr 2015 5:18 pm
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Now I wonder if Epiphone and Rickenbacher ever had any legal hassles over the pickups or Rickenbacher and anyone else for that matter who may have made horseshoe style pickups way back then. I've read here on the forum where the were some issues recently with a fine gentleman who pursued the mfg. of horseshoe style pickups. Then again the "R"company is owned by other than the original owner(s). Anybody here on the forum have any info? 
Maybe a patent search is in order 
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G Strout
From:
Carabelle, Florida
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Posted 21 Apr 2015 4:13 pm
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B.F. Meissner made horseshoe pickups around 1936-1938. He made the horseshoe pickups that have been found on a few models of Epiphone, Vega & Oahu lap steel guitars that were made by Kay I believe.. from 1936 -38. I have seen one in a wood bodied Oahu. (Tonemaster or Diana Deluxe can't remember which one.)
Meissner's sound better than most Rickenbacher pups from the same era.(IMHO) They have bigger stronger magnets and a higher output. With great signal translation. Meissner was an electronic engineer in the audio amplification field back in the early days. He also had a few patents that showed up on the early Electar guitars. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 21 Apr 2015 4:20 pm
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| G Strout wrote: |
| B.F. Meissner made horseshoe pickups around 1936-1938. He made the horseshoe pickups that have been found on a few models of Epiphone, Vega & Oahu lap steel guitars that were made by Kay I believe.. |
Meissner never built pickups, as far as I know; he just held a patent on a pickup design and tried to brow-beat everyone else into paying him royalties. Epiphone was the only one who capitulated.
Epiphone made at least three different horseshoe pickups in-house, Vega made their own design, Oscar Schmidt put a different design on Stella steels (not sure if they made it) and Kay probably built their own as well. |
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G Strout
From:
Carabelle, Florida
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Posted 21 Apr 2015 4:59 pm
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Noah I knew that Kay had made some horseshoe pups. My info was that Kuhrmeyer recieved letters from Richenbachers attorneys at some point and referred them to Meissner who they claimed had made and licensed them to Kay.
In any event whomever made them for Kay sure had a handle on making them. I have made several of them myself and have just now found a combination that I am extremely happy with. Whatever happened to Rickenbackers lawsuit with Jason Lollar? I notice that they are no longer listed on his website. I thought that the patent had long ago expired?? |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2015 5:15 pm
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Epiphone had the strongest magnets .. By far .. Very high quality cobalt steel .... Their coils and the blade schemes left much to be desired ...
Vega used faux horseshoes that were just non-magnetic "half shoes" ...
Stella used very strong thin horseshoes ... Similar to Epiphone ...same crappy air-coil around a split blade ...
Much later, PA Bigsby used a narrower horseshoe ( 1.25" ?) for some of the early works ...
Rickenbacher's patent basically shut all of them down ... Through the 50"s ....
We all know what Ric International did in the mid 2000's ...
The lawsuit was settled ... And Jason has both the 1.5" and 1.25" bass units back up on his site ... Costs are higher now .. |
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G Strout
From:
Carabelle, Florida
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Posted 21 Apr 2015 5:18 pm
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Thanks Rick. I was hoping that you would show up.. 
Are you still making the shoes for Jason? |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 22 Apr 2015 3:32 am
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| Rick Aiello wrote: |
| Vega used faux horseshoes that were just non-magnetic "half shoes" ... |
Some Vega steels had these; they were really just hand rests. They can be identified by the screws holding them to the bodies:
However, Vega Spanish guitars did have genuine magnetic horseshoe magnets. There were bar magnets under each coil, and the horseshoes acted as poles that spread the magnetic field over the strings. These have a Rickenbacker-style mounting system, just without the side plates:
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2015 6:48 am
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I remember reading and seeing your photos of that guitar ...
If I remember correctly ... There were two coils lying side by side ...
If both coils were wound in the same direction ... A standard horseshoe's dipole field would be fine ... No need for the bar magnets ...
If they were reverse wound ... A standard horseshoes dipole field would cause phase issues .. Hence the need for the bar magnets ...
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| There were bar magnets under each coil, and the horseshoes acted as poles that spread the magnetic field over the strings. |
With the bar magnets providing the field ... These horseshoes are serving more as a housing and backing function than a field generator ... IE ShoBuds, Excel, Turner, etc ... Even if those shoes are hardened alloy steel that is capable of maintaining a charge ..
Personally, I think that unit is really cool ... If they are reverse wound and multipolar ... They pre-date "modern humbuckers" by years |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 22 Apr 2015 6:58 am
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| I think they're reverse-wound simply because you can stick that pickup right up to a noise source and not get any hum out of it. I know the horseshoes themselves provide a bit of shielding, but that pickup was a lot quieter than even a Rickenbacker. The same goes for the "faux-shoe" Vegas with the hand rests removed. |
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