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Topic: ***Compression question. ***** |
Scott McRee
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2015 12:18 pm |
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| I have a question about fx pedals for pedal steel. I saw that Eric heywood who plays steel for Ray lamontagne had a newly compression pedal on his board. What are talks opinions of compression for more modern day steel stuff that is played over singer songwriter music/ballad ish folk soul music? Also, besides the normal reverb and delay, what are some wonderful pedals for steel. Once again, I don't play to much honkey tonk music....more singer songwriter slower modern day stuff. Examples would be, Ryan Adams, Ray lamontagne, Damien rice, Amos lee etc.. Also what are talks signal chains with the pedals? Thanks a lot in advance. |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Scott McRee
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2015 3:19 pm
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| Yes I do use a volume pedal |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Posted 10 Apr 2015 4:00 pm
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They sort of do the same thing, but if you try one out, run the compressor between the guitar and the volume pedal. Otherwise, you'll have the compressor battling the volume pedal.
_________________
Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 10 Apr 2015 6:23 pm
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| Chris Templeton wrote: |
| ... if you try one out, run the compressor between the guitar and the volume pedal. Otherwise, you'll have the compressor battling the volume pedal. |
Exactly.
Compressors are fine, as long as they do not limit/compress the attack. Control the attack with playing technique and the Volume Pedal. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 1:00 am
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Georg is right. In a recording studio most instruments are compressed to reduce their dynamic range and make them easier to combine. It's not supposed to be an audible effect.
Also PSG is usually about clean attack and big headroom, compressed manually (or should that be pedally). A compressor in a box would be for if you really wanted to get away from that. Could be good for some things.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 5:43 am
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I recently picked up a Wampler Ego Compressor and really like what it does. The secret to the pedal is the blend knob. you can blend in clean signal. I run the pedal after the volume pedal but before any other effects. You have to spend time tweaking the settings but you can really get a tone sweetening and fattening effect without killing attack or sounding compressed. Maybe the effect I am getting is more of a clean boost, but I do like it. Its much different that the Keeley 2 knob compressor I tried, which really compressed the signal.
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Bob Russell
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 6:25 am
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| Karen Sarkisian wrote: |
| I recently picked up a Wampler Ego Compressor and really like what it does. The secret to the pedal is the blend knob. you can blend in clean signal. I run the pedal after the volume pedal but before any other effects. You have to spend time tweaking the settings but you can really get a tone sweetening and fattening effect without killing attack or sounding compressed. Maybe the effect I am getting is more of a clean boost, but I do like it. Its much different that the Keeley 2 knob compressor I tried, which really compressed the signal. |
I'm also a fan of the Ego pedal. I like it better for "underarm" guitar than for pedal steel so far. Then again, it's a very tweakable pedal and I haven't spent as much time trying to dial in a steel sound with it. Very well made and the quietest stomp box compressor I've used. As Chris said earlier, you'd want the compressor right after the guitar so that no other effects interfere with the compressor reacting to the guitar's envelope.
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Lots of stringy things, many of them slidey. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 7:22 am
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| My guess is that the natural instrument voice dominates the attack and the compressed voice dominates the decaying sustaining tone... If true that really does open things up a bit. |
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Bob Russell
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 7:26 am
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
| My guess is that the natural instrument voice dominates the attack and the compressed voice dominates the decaying sustaining tone... If true that really does open things up a bit. |
A good compressor can definitely be set that way. As Karen said earlier, the blend knob on the Wampler is useful for that kind of thing.
_________________
Lots of stringy things, many of them slidey. |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 7:29 pm
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Hey, Scott, if you do a search here on compression topics you'll find a lot of reading for the desert island… and a lot of opinions.
As many have pointed out, "Classic" steel playing was/is compressed with volume pedal technique and tube amps at the end of the chain. I don't know how many studios in the 50's-70's used rack compression on the steel tracks we ended up hearing in the final mix, but it's fairly common routing now to compress the steel somewhere in the recording chain.
One of the issues with compression used live in the country idiom is the ubiquitous use of compressor pedals with modern lead guitar- the "bwarmp" sound of a squashed attack has become part of the sound of modern country. Lots of steel players have associated that sound with compression as an effect, and steer away. As has been mentioned, studio compression is often used in a way that makes it fairly transparent, or at least not identifiable as an effect. Smoothing the peaks out a bit, and lengthening sustain, but often inaudible without A-B'ing with and without. The downside is that many people aren't satisfied with an effect and the financial outlay, etc., unless they can hear it working…
While I sometimes use light compression in the studio, I generally try to play consistently enough to eliminate the need… there is a lot to be found in volume pedal technique. While I did like the effect Buddy Emmons got in the late 70's with some heavy compression (insert bwarmp here) I only want that sound occasionally and can get it from an envelope follower. Sometimes newer steelers seem to be looking for increased sustain and body and wonder if compression will provide that, but it can generally be found in a combination of techniques. The extra sustain provided by a hardware compressor sounds (to me) more artificial and contrived compared to that from hands and volume pedal. I have owned guitars that I had to fight for sustain, and others that seemed to have extra on tap…
But if you feel the need for smooth "bwarmpless" sustain, I'd suggest trying a studio-quality compressor or two until you heard the sound you were after, and then looked for something close in a portable pedal. Some of the stuff they make for Bass looks very appropriate. C'mon by the studio and try any of a number of rack boxes we have on tap.
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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 7:57 pm
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I find the best sustain comes from a good guitar and a LOUD amp. Crank it up, and keep it throttled back until you need sustain.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 11:09 pm
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| Mark van Allen wrote: |
| [...] But if you feel the need for smooth "bwarmpless" sustain, I'd suggest trying a studio-quality compressor or two until you heard the sound you were after, and then looked for something close in a portable pedal. Some of the stuff they make for Bass looks very appropriate. |
The Boss LMB-3 I use is made for bass guitar, and with moderate settings it is transparent and works well for steel. I chose the LMB-3 after having tested out a number of s.c. "compressors", to get "in a small box" more or less what I was used to from back in the days when I was running my own studio. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2015 6:01 am
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I used my Meek VC-3 for a few gigs. Very transparent, but I came to feel it wasn't worth the trouble. Anybody wanna buy it?
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Bob Russell
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2015 6:15 am
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| Georg Sørtun wrote: |
| Mark van Allen wrote: |
| [...] But if you feel the need for smooth "bwarmpless" sustain, I'd suggest trying a studio-quality compressor or two until you heard the sound you were after, and then looked for something close in a portable pedal. Some of the stuff they make for Bass looks very appropriate. |
The Boss LMB-3 I use is made for bass guitar, and with moderate settings it is transparent and works well for steel. I chose the LMB-3 after having tested out a number of s.c. "compressors", to get "in a small box" more or less what I was used to from back in the days when I was running my own studio. |
I've got an LMB-3 too. I bought it for bass, but I ended up using it on guitar a lot. It has ratio and threshold controls; those are important to me because I want to know exactly what the dang thing's doing. It sounds very good for a stomp box.
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Lots of stringy things, many of them slidey. |
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