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Topic: Origins of the C#min tuning |
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 25 Mar 2015 5:16 pm |
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Up until now, I've always believed that the C#min7 tuning used by Sol Hoopii was the first appearance of a tuning other than the usual E, E7 and A tunings, but after a discovery today, I no longer believe that to be the case.
I imagined that the C#min7 tuning emerged from the E tuning, and by tuning up the second string to C#, Sol could inhabit some of the upper string harmony he'd been so accustomed to in A tuning. But Scott Thomas pointed something out today which made me grab my guitar to play a familiar favorite, La Rosita by Sol K. Bright.
In another thread, I stated my thoughts that I believe Sol's first recordings of C#min7 were on electric Hawaiian guitar in 1935. La Rosita, which I've always known to be in C#min tuning was recorded in March, 1934. Something made me grab my guitar and revisit the tune, and sure enough I discovered that Sol K. Bright used a C#min tuning a little different that Mr. Hoopii's: E C# G# E C# G#. He simply lowered the As in A tuning to G#. I've played it several times and it makes absolutely perfect sense to me.
Somehow, Mr. Hoopii must have figured that he needed the notes B and E in the bass, as he spent a considerable amount of time playing in that region. He ended up with: E C# G# E B E
This may have been discussed elsewhere, but until now I've never seen the C#min tuning of Sol K. Bright listed before. I think he deserves credit for that advance. One of the big features of the tuning is the 3 string slant which yields the 9th chord, which is used prominently in La Rosita, not only on the treble strings, but in the bass strings. If time allows, I will offer up my own performance of how I think Mr. Bright played it.
It will always be a mystery of what really happened behind the scenes, but in terms of recorded output, that will have to serve as a timeline for the innovations of steel guitar.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 25 Mar 2015 6:53 pm
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Ok, I've uploaded a short demonstration of what I believe is Sol K. Bright's C#min tuning. Forgive the sloppy playing, I'm just illustrating the point of the tuning.
Notice the slant in the bass strings as well as the cascading arpeggio laying out perfectly in the tuning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo55s6s9bmU
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Ken Campbell
From:
Ferndale, Montana
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Posted 25 Mar 2015 7:05 pm
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| Very cool Mike, you are in pursuit! |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 25 Mar 2015 7:07 pm
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| Ken Campbell wrote: |
| Very cool Mike, you are in pursuit! |
In pursuit of the truth! 
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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John Troutman
From:
Washington, DC
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Posted 25 Mar 2015 7:12 pm
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| Whoa. Excellent work!! It's really exciting to see you guys tackling these historical questions on tunings-- The video demos are outta site, too. THANK YOU!! |
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Anthony Locke
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2015 7:27 pm
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| How about that slant at 1:32... Really nice! I don't have my guitar in front of me but I seem to think that you can get that same voicing with Ho'opi'i's C#min but without the slant. Does this mean that Bright's version of the tuning is an earlier version that was later modified for this and maybe other reasons? |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 25 Mar 2015 7:40 pm
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| Anthony Locke wrote: |
| How about that slant at 1:32... Really nice! I don't have my guitar in front of me but I seem to think that you can get that same voicing with Ho'opi'i's C#min but without the slant. Does this mean that Bright's version of the tuning is an earlier version that was later modified for this and maybe other reasons? |
I believe Sol Hoopii modified the tuning later on.
You can get the same voicing in C#min7 in two ways, but one is on the first 3 strings and includes an open 3rd string (not too good) and the second is here:
X
X
10
10
9
X
It's a little more difficult and kind of dicey. It's the arpeggios that really seal it up for me, though.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 5:46 am
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| Anthony Locke wrote: |
| How about that slant at 1:32... Really nice! I don't have my guitar in front of me but I seem to think that you can get that same voicing with Ho'opi'i's C#min but without the slant. Does this mean that Bright's version of the tuning is an earlier version that was later modified for this and maybe other reasons? |
To answer this directly, that voicing is not possible without a slant, as it contains a tritone interval not available in the tuning itself. The notes of the slant chord are: G# D F#, a partial of E9.
Of course, assuming that by saying "Ho'opi'i's C#min" you mean E C# G# E B E.
Too many apostrophes!
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 7:03 am
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You should have your own TV show ... CSI Neer: Forensic Steel 
Whatever you unearth ... C#m has really re-energized me ... Albeit just the top 4 strings (the older I get, the less strings I need  )
I'm casting myself a "Tenor Pan" this summer ...  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 7:33 am
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| I have used that tuning for years but my top strings are E C# B G#. I like both the C# and the B on the top strings. This is on an 8 string neck. |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 9:45 am
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Once again, I remark that C#min is an E6 chord, and I believe that Sol's tuning came from an E tuning. A 6th tuning (E6, A6, G6, C6, for example) has a lot of advantages for the non-pedal player, because the VI and I notes are the III and V notes of the 4 chord, giving the player a nice "pocket" to play in at both the I and the V positions on the neck.
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Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 10:08 am
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| Jack Aldrich wrote: |
| Once again, I remark that C#min is an E6 chord, and I believe that Sol's tuning came from an E tuning. A 6th tuning (E6, A6, G6, C6, for example) has a lot of advantages for the non-pedal player, because the VI and I notes are the III and V notes of the 4 chord, giving the player a nice "pocket" to play in at both the I and the V positions on the neck. |
What I am pointing out is that Sol Hoopii's tuning may have very well had its origins in a modified A tuning, as used by Sol K. Bright, but was later modded to give it an E tonality, and something more useful for him in his playing. Whether it is called a 6th tuning is not really the issue, although I absolutely can see your point.
For me, a true 6th tuning has to have both the 5th and 6th of the scale adjacent to one another. Erv's tuning above is an E6, IMO. But I don't really want to belabor that discussion here. I think the topic is of historical significance.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 1:05 pm
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Agreed.
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Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 26 Mar 2015 7:20 pm
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| Nice work, Mike. Maybe your video of La Rosita wasn't up to your standards, but I enjoyed it just as well. It's very instructive of the point you are making, particularly those arpeggios which are spot on. I think it's kind of a big deal in our world, so it's great to have your considered analysis as always. |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 2:23 am
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Nice work Mike, I also love La Rosita and Sol K Bright, who is such an underrated player in my opinion. I always played c#m just by lowering the A strings to g# and
with that you can play 95% of the 'proper' c#min stuff by Sol Hoopii and Dick McIntire.
Actually Stacy Phillips is the one who suggested that tuning in his books(down a whole step for all the dobro players).
A Highbass and that special version of c#min are my main tunings and it's very easy to switch tunings.
I see it as a mixture of two tunings, E6 and Amaj7. You can still play a lot of your A licks, you only have to raise the stuff on the g# strings by a halfstep.
Vive le c#min !!!
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https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 3:19 am
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| Sebastian Müller wrote: |
Nice work Mike, I also love La Rosita and Sol K Bright, who is such an underrated player in my opinion. I always played c#m just by lowering the A strings to g# and
with that you can play 95% of the 'proper' c#min stuff by Sol Hoopii and Dick McIntire.
Actually Stacy Phillips is the one who suggested that tuning in his books(down a whole step for all the dobro players).
A Highbass and that special version of c#min are my main tunings and it's very easy to switch tunings.
I see it as a mixture of two tunings, E6 and Amaj7. You can still play a lot of your A licks, you only have to raise the stuff on the g# strings by a halfstep.
Vive le c#min !!! |
Well, that's good to know--I haven't seen Stacy's book, but credit where credit is due. 
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 5:48 am
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Really nice job of research, playing and most of all .... thinking and deducing, Mike. Now, anyone ready to prove somebody played C6th before Jerry Byrd? Not me!
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Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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