New 8 string steel design- what do you think?

Spencer Cook · From: Texas, USA

Here's a drawing for my new steel. I'm open to any criticism you have- form, functionality, whatever. I get the feeling you all might prefer more guitar like bodies but hey, I like the space-y shape.

I'm primarily concerned about the headstock- will those angles cause problems? Is it too long? It's a partially slotted design but hasn't been fully worked out yet.

Body: stained ash, string through
Pickups: custom made by Vintage Vibe, one stringmaster and one blade style humbucker, wired in a 5 tone-tele scheme
Tuning Machines: Hipshot locking
Nut and Bridge: custom milled, aluminum or 303 Steel, what do you think?

I'll post more images as I work it out. Thanks!

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I think the headstock angles are too steep. But maybe George Piburn will come in with a more informed opinion.
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Don McGregor · From: Memphis, Tennessee

the headstock is not too long. I prefer a ittle space between the nut and the first tuners so that your wrist has room for slanting right at the nut. Too close, and your wrist is impeded by a tuner.
I'd have to see a larger drawing to look into string angles. It looks like the heavier strings are in danger of rubbing against their neighboring tuner posts if not wound exactly to the end of each of their posts.
I prefer a straight through string pull from bridge to tuner post whenever possible, but, even though I do a good bit of behind the bar string pulling, have never experienced much of a problem with strings returning to pitch, even with a pretty good angle thrown in.
Billy Robinson's Derby has a 24" scale length, so your scale length looks fine.

Tom Pettingill · From: California, USA (deceased)

Cool project Spencer!

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

The tuners on the bass side are oriented the wrong way around - looks like you are using "lefthanded" tuners on both sides of the headstock.
You will have to use different kinds of tuners on the treble and bass sides - otherwise, the string will pull the axle away from the cog on the tuning peg (instead towards it), which might cause tuning stability problems in the long run...

Also, if you do angle the string holes on the bridge (instead of keeping them parallel to the bridge, which would be perfectly fine), I'd do it the other way round, so that the holes for the thicker/stiffer bass strings are farther away from the bridge - giving a less acute angle for those stiff strings. Probably doesn't matter all that much in reality, though... Wink

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

I think the asymmetry is aesthetically pleasing. Nice job.
Agree with the other string angle comments. It will be a challenge though to come up with a headstock with less string angle that fits the other aesthetic attributes of the guitar I'm sure.
You might consider six tuners on the top side and two on the bottom side?
Another comment I might make. I think I would bevel the body of the guitar in front of the fret board, perhaps a 10 deg angle down, starting at the front edge of the fret board continuing to the front edge of the body. You could stop the bevel with an arc, or radiused angle that matches the other radii, where the neck meets the picking/controls area contouring it such that there would be no bevel at all in that area.
It's great to have that front edge fall away to avoid bar damage, especially if you are doing a lot of hammer-ons on string one.
Where would you put the cord jack?
Perhaps on the right end, in line with the controls for easy manufacture?

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

make it!!!!

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Slotted headstocks are not so tough as non-slotted, and they break easily if dropped.

When designing any sort of string instrument, try to keep the angles so that they strings pass as straight as possible from tuners to bridge. That was the main innovation when Leo Fender came up with his original solid steel design.

Bridges and nuts should not have any sharp angles, which wear out strings.

Spencer Cook · From: Texas, USA

Hey everyone, thanks for all the input. Here's the updated image:

The image shows more material being removed from the headstock than it will actually have in the final version. The strings have been aligned properly (per your advice) and the steel reinforcing/mounting plate has been shown more clearly.

I'll post more images as I refine the design. Thanks again![/img][/quote]

George Piburn · From: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico

From What I am seeing and E-Hearing.

Roman is correct - you want Right and Left Tuners. - Fixed That

On The String Through's,
I think aligning them to the tail is better than opposite of that line.

To fix the Head , is simple -
Widen it a little at the Nut area. Fixed That
Schooch the Fret board and nut over some to get a better straight line going.
If you keep a bottom to the tuner pockets.
It will strengthen that deflection by a great percentage.

The only way to get the 2 center stings straight up is to off set the tuner posts.
If have them directly across from one another the posts are too long ,
But it is not enough to matter - so no biggie. Fixed That

OutPut Straight out in line with the Chamber for the controls will make things go easier,

Lettuce Know If you want to make them 25 or more at a time, our CNC can cut them out for you to Exacting Specs.
I can cut out as few as 1 piece , -- the programming and proto runs are not too price effective until you get up to a dozen of a model.
After that many pieces the amortization starts to kick in to your benefit.

Same thing on the FretBoards , we make awesome Non Glare ones now in any scale and any shape any color - custom markers,
-- as few as 1 and the prices drop at 12 pieces.

BTW I can make the Router Template for you with our Laser in 1/4" Plexiglass for a very reasonable price.
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Peter Lindelauf · From: Penticton, BC

Like the overall look of your proposed guitar, Spencer, but suggest that you have a look at some of George's headstock designs. I've got a first guitar in the works, too, so I can empathize. As well, I have an otherwise great Tremblay guitar with angled tuner posts and slotted headstock but the varying wind angles are a less than elegant solution compared to straight string/perpendicular wind.
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Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

How do you intend to make the fretboards? There are basically two different sorts; the traditional one as on other fretted instruments, where you cut slots and insert fret wire; the other is painting or printing them on. Both are fairly easy, and, unlike on a fingered instrument, you don't have to worry about the strings buzzing if one of the frets is slightly high.
A system that I've used to good effect is to cover the fingerboard with masking tape, mark out the positions of the frets, then cut strips in the masking tape with an Xacto knife. Spray the fingerboard with whatever colour you choose ...I prefer gold or white.... then remove the masking tape when the paint is dry.
If you want to know where the frets go, either copy where they are on another instrument with the same scale length, or email me at afbrookes@aol.com and I'll send you an Excel Spreadsheet that I wrote some years ago for that purpose. Or, just give me the length from nut to bridge (in centimetres), and I'll tell you exactly where to put them.
By the way, I've found that the use of threaded barstock works well for both bridges and nuts. You don't need to cut slots in it because the threading holds the strings in place, and if you, at any time, want to alter the string spacing, you only need to lift them and move them across. Plus, bar stock has no sharp edges to break the strings.

Spencer Cook · From: Texas, USA

For the fretboard, I'm going to go with the most unnecessarily complicated option, of course: laser cut wood with resin inlay. I've never tried it but think it'll work. More pictures coming soon-

George Piburn · From: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico

For Example :

This is a laser etched Fret Board with INLace -- Styrene fret lines and Edge Banding the wood is walnut , dyed Black.
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Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel

Spencer Cook · From: Texas, USA

Alright, thanks for all the feedback everyone. Here's the final design... 50 hours later. Now all I have to do is have the parts fabricated and put it all together.

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James Honberger · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Robert Allen · From: Tennessee, USA

Stew Mac hides that link down at the bottom of the page, can be a little difficult to find.
http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator.html

Larry Phleger · From: DuBois, PA

Here's a site where you can design a fretboard and it will generate a printable fretboard template. You supply the scale length, the number of stings, and the string spacing You can use it as a template for whatever fretboard you plan to make.

http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Beautiful. I also like spacey. The grain in the wood gives even more movement to the shape.
I like everything about the esthetic of the layout of elements. Classic modern.
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Spencer Cook · From: Texas, USA

I thought I'd post some project progress. I got the form roughed out with the CNC. The image of the body is actually a just a test- the final won't have the natural voids, but they're nice in a way. I'm really excited about the headstock.

Peter Jacobs · From: Northern Virginia

Beautiful design -- lots of fluid motion to it. It looks practical as well as artistic. I really like the look of the tailpiece.

How will the bridge be held on? Will it sit in a recess or be screwed in from the top or bottom?
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Spencer Cook · From: Texas, USA

Thanks Peter. The bridge will be attached through the top, with the countersunk heads visible between the strings. I slightly regret not carving out a recess for it as I did for the nut but wanted to maintain a bit of scale length flexibility.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

One of the things I've done to make a slotted headstock stronger, especially on instruments with multiple strings, is to glue a back to the headstock.
Headstocks don't have to go all the way through. Your design, especially with only eight strings, should be well strong enough, and it looks very good. You've managed to combine the best of both worlds by carving the holes without going all the way through. Did you use a router? Creating that shape using just hand tools would be next to impossible.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

Spencer,

Your skills and progress on this steel look very good. Kudos. It's good when builders ask for ideas and is obvious they listen, like you have. Some builders don't, and "pay for it" with mistakes or a product that has features inferior to related valid suggestions made.

Just throwing out ideas for your R&D and Beta phases:

For horizontal string shafts mounting: Stepping the tuner mounts so they and the string shafts run perpendiclar to the strings allows the strings to wind nicely, even and tight like a spool rather than problems of strings trying to run inboard away from the string hole on aft- angled horizontal strings shafts; Although a slight aft-angle on horizontal string shafts will spool nicely if strung to run outboard.

Running straight lines from the bridge's string slots, across and beyond the nut's strings slots, will give the longitudinal lines upon which the tuner string shafts string holes should center or be offset slightly to assist the spooling effect.

To provide more headstock strength, and more headstock space to work with, and easier to plot & assign tuners string shaft stations, and get them to relate-to / balance-with each other well in headstock space: The treble bout tuners knob shafts could be mounted to stand up (like you have) while the bass bout tuners could mount with the knob shafts horizontal and the string shafts standing up vertical like most lap steels and guitars do, and would be out of the way of the left hand when sliding a bar down across / past the nut; And those 2 different kinds of mountings would still be ergonomic for easy reach by the left hand for tuning, ...actually more ergonomic than standing the bass side knob shafts up vertical. I also think it might be pleasantly aesthetic to this steel guitar's different / fresh / pleasant design character.
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