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Topic: C6 copedant pedal question |
steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 27 Feb 2015 2:49 am |
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I'm thinking of putting a different pedal where the standard pedal 4 is (raises strings 4 and 8 A s to B s). It would be to the left of the traditional pedal 5.
The question is, would pedal 7 or pedal 8 be used more often there? If pedal 7 were situated there it would eliminate having to use two feet as to hit pedals 5 and 7 together as Buddy Emmons often does.
One negative is pedals 6 and 7 together have some nice Augmented chords. So I'd have to use both feet on that combo.
What are there other major drawbacks of using each? Any other options? I only have four levers.
All advice appreciated. Thanks, stevet
Last edited by steve takacs on 27 Feb 2015 6:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 27 Feb 2015 5:11 am
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I'd leave P4 alone, and listen to some of the old school western swing cats use it, especially on string 8. Tom Morrell played some pedal steel on the first records with the Time Warp Tophands, and I bought How the West Was Swung a month after I moved P4 to the front neck. Regretted it as soon as I realized what I was hearing..
To reduce double-footing, put P5 on a knee.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 27 Feb 2015 5:51 am
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| Swap it with traditional pedal 8 boo-wah. It's a natural progression across the pedals l to r. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 27 Feb 2015 9:15 am
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| IMHO I have Buck Reid's floor pedals and kls(although in different positions) and that p5+p7 voicing is gotten with p5+ c-b kl and 1st string(d) |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2015 9:38 am
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Other ideas for that pedal...
The easiest thing you could try is to tune those raises to only raise a half tone instead of a whole tone.
This brings your open 6th chord, to a 7th chord, and also provides single note passing notes in a lot of western swing type of songs.
It is also a minor chord when combined with P6, for example, two frets up from an open 6th chord, would the 2minor chord.
You can also use those two rods/cranks/etc to change that pedal to raise your C's and half step.
This gives you a big 7th chord across the neck, 3 frets up from your open 6th chord. This is analogous to the F-lever on E9th. I personally think of it as The Robert Randolph change, because it gives you a huge strum-able 7th chord with blues licks all around it with a little bar movement (a lot of the notes are two frets back).
Just some thoughts.
Pete B. |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 2 Mar 2015 8:45 pm Thanks for the input
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| Thanks, gents; all this information has been very helpful. Really appreciate your taking the time to chime in. stevet |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 3 Mar 2015 11:34 am
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Steve because I have the Franklin pedal on P4, I don't have any C6th pulls on it, and I moved my whole C6th setup one step to the right (9 pedals) ... I also have my BooWaah pedal in the first position rather than 8 -- because it is more natural to go from that to the normal pedal 5, works a lot smoother. I don't have the standard pedal 4 pulls on my guitar at all, but have a Doug Jernigan inspired setup on my last pedal which is kinda experimental. - I also have 5 knees on C6th. If your interested I can email my setup to you.
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 7 Mar 2015 5:26 pm Thanks again for C6 info.
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Lane, I agree and would like to keep and move pedal 4 to the pedal 8 position for the reason Paddy mentions as the pedal 8 change is often used with pedal 5.
Jerry, would you elaborate on the "natural progression" idea if pedal positions 8 and 4 were swapped, please?
Some of the chords I would get with only one pedal engaged and string 1 tuned to D are the following left to right:
open (C, C6, Am, Am7, F, Fmaj)
pedal 8 (A, A7, Aug9, C#dim)
pedal 5 (D9, D7,Am6, C+)
pedal 6 (F7, F9, Cm, Cm6, Amb5)
pedal 7 (Cmaj7, Cmaj13, C6/9, G6,G+9, Em)
pedal 4(Cmaj7,Am9,D9,D7,Am6,C+)
pedals 5 + 6 (Cdim, G#7b9, F7b9,F13b9, D7+9)
pedals 5 &7 (D7)
Jerry, what progression are you seeing with these chords?
Pete, I had not even considered that change you suggest. More to think about and try.
John, thanks I will also try to avoid that Pedal 5 + 7 double-footing with the alternative you suggested.
As always, you gentleman have been very helpful. steve t |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 7 Mar 2015 6:26 pm
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I avoid double-footing by putting P5 on LKR....
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 7:45 am
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John, your humble opinion for putting pedals 5 & 7 together by using pedal 5 with the lever that drops string 3 from C to B along with the addition of string 1 works like a charm and means I can keep the pedal 7 where it normally can be found.
Lane, I'd like to try pedal 5 on a lever but I only have 4 levers on this ZB. I'm afraid there may be too may pulls if I use it for the pedal 5 changes since the lever would be doing double duty on the E9th as well. Could be rather stiff if it is even possible to load a ZB lever with 5 changes.
Keep those ideas coming, lads & ladies.
thanks, stevet
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 1:07 pm
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I had Bud Carter put C->C# changes on my 4th pedal. That and pedal 5 give me an A6, which, at the 3rd fret, give me the 1st inversion on the C chord, much like the LKL lever and A pedal do for E at the 3rd fret. It also puts an E on the top, so I can play more "classic C6" sounding. I have a D on the 2nd string. He put the standard D pedal changes on my RKR.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 4:31 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| I avoid double-footing by putting P5 on LKR.... |
I truly hate double-pedaling. I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff the moment my right foot comes off the volume pedal, so I really like your notion. Unfortunately, I've not been able to make it work-out.
I tried pedal 5 on a LKL but it was difficult to hit the lever and pedal 7 ( w/o engaging pedal 6 too). Just the opposite happened when I switched it to a LKR. I Also, I've had just the G->F# (5th string) on a RKR, but missed the bass string changes..
In the end, I wound up placing a redundant pedal 7 on LKL which allows all the pedal 5,6 & 7 combinations. The obvious drawback is that it is "redundant "and as such, wastes a KL for more unique changes. |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 15 Mar 2015 3:37 am Jerry would you expand on your statement?
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Jerry, you mention the following earlier but can you explain the progression via the number system please when pedals 4 and 8 are switched?
[i]Swap it with traditional pedal 8 boo-wah. It's a natural progression across the pedals l to r.[/i] Thanks, steve |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Mar 2015 4:19 am
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I think he means they'd run
8-5-6-7-4 (since the C6th pedal assignments are about as standard as the A-B-C of the front neck, I think it only fair to make them keep their names, no matter where they go).
While it eliminates the crazy jump, it still leaves the double-footing.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 15 Mar 2015 8:01 am
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I don't play much C6 any more, and none in my current band. I am also in the camp of players that can't stand using 2 feet. I moved both P7 and P8 to knee levers. Works great for me. I also agree with Lane about keeping the original pedal names when referring to them. When I say pedal 7, I mean my right knee right, and pedal 8 is my left knee left.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 15 Mar 2015 8:05 am Both feet on the pedals
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Double-footing may be undesirable but I don't see how it's totally avoidable. My old D10 has 8-5-6-7-4 which I quite like. (It's a copy of a Permanent so it would be tough to change anyway.) But I still need to use 7 & 8 together sometimes and you can't have every pedal next to every other.
Intensive use of the volume pedal strikes me as an E9 thing - the kind of music that uses a lot of C6 pedals doesn't seem to depend on it so much. Mine is stiff enough to stay put while I'm away.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Mar 2015 8:50 am
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You can nearly eliminate double-footing by putting P5 on a knee.
Or put 8 on P4 and put P7 on a knee.
Since P5 is on a knee on my guitar, P8 is on the seventh pedal. The eighth pedal raises 3 and 7 a half, so it and P5 together give me F-A-C-E-G-A-C-E-G(-F) at the third fret.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2015 9:07 am
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
The easiest thing you could try is to tune those raises to only raise a half tone instead of a whole tone.
This brings your open 6th chord, to a 7th chord, and also provides single note passing notes in a lot of western swing type of songs. |
I like both half step and whole step raises on my (.020 inch) A string. So I put both on one knee lever with a half stop.
This makes P7 unneccesary for me so I eliminated it. I have a pedal off to the left that raises hi C to D in case I really want to sound like P7. Also I have a D string so the D note is always there.
IMO the two raises on P7 are nice but you should be able to use them separately!
Also I don't raise the lower A (.042 inch) to B and don't miss it. Sez Adamson is the only guy I know of who gets a lot of mileage out of that change anyway.
I do have another pedal off to the left that raises both A strings to B flat. That can be a little better than the knee lever for getting the B flat quickly & accurately without worrying about landing right on the half stop. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2015 9:08 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
You can nearly eliminate double-footing by putting P5 on a knee.
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Good idea, because P5 combines well with so many other pedals.
My problem with P5 on a knee lever is that it is a long, stiff pull (4 strings), just too much for a knee lever.
A good workaround might be to just pull one string with that lever, the G in the middle. For me, lowering that G to F# is all that I use it for most of the time anyway. Then you could use a half stop for F# and F natural (very useful).
| Lane Gray wrote: |
Or put 8 on P4 and put P7 on a knee.
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yes, very much like what I did:
http://b0b.com/tunings/ebovine.html#C6 |
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