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Topic: e-clip slot |
Dave Little
From:
Atlanta
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Posted 1 Sep 2003 6:13 pm |
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| Anybody ever have any luck cutting the slot for an e-clip? Maybe with a Dremel? |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2003 6:19 pm
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Dave,
This is a very narrow slot. Even narrower than what is standard on E clip slots as cut on most lathes.
I have never tried it with a Dremel but it is worth a try. The standard slot cutters I use are all too wide for that slot. I have NO idea where Emmons gets that slot cutter from.
And IF the slot is not narrow, it makes backlash in the nylon tuner be quite evident since the E clip in a narrow slot holds the rod rigid against the bellcrank normally. But if the slot is wide, the rod will twist each time you change directions when trying to adjust the nylon tuner.
Good luck, and may Jesus bless you in your quests,
carl |
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Dave Little
From:
Atlanta
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Posted 1 Sep 2003 6:26 pm
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| I did a search on the net and found some dremel saw blades that they claim have a .004" kerf. I'll have to get out some feeler guages tommorrow and measure the slot in the pull rod, but .004" sounds pretty narrow. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Sep 2003 6:28 pm
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| Yes, it's easily done with a Dremel tool (using one of the small cut-off discs). Just make sure that both the tool and the rod are mounted, or steadied, in some way. Trying it "freehand" might result in a slot that wasn't cut at 90 degrees, which might cause the clip to pop out under stress. |
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Dave Little
From:
Atlanta
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Posted 1 Sep 2003 6:36 pm
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| Thanks guys. I felt sure that someone here had tried this before. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 1 Sep 2003 10:47 pm
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what Donny says
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RON PRESTON
From:
Dodson, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2003 3:23 am
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| That slot is lathed at .015, or fifteen thousants of an inch. I had to turn MANY on the lathe at Emmons. Very Boring, to say the least. |
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Loren Morehouse
From:
Meadowlands, MN USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2003 5:36 am
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| Don't end this subject, I want to hear how it turned out and exactly how you did it. I'd like to do that myself!! Loren. |
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Dave Little
From:
Atlanta
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Posted 12 Sep 2003 6:50 am
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I was able to cut the slot OK. Unless you look very closely, you can't tell it wasn't done on a lathe. Here's what I did: 1. Snug a 3/8 drill motor (everybody has one of these) in a small bench vise - then chuck-up the pull rod in the drill motor. 2. Hook the flex attachment (with a thin diamond cutting blade from Home Depot)onto the Dremel. 3. Start the 3/8 drill (with pull rod) and lock on. You have to hold the loose end of the pull rod (while it is spinning) to keep it from whipping around in a big circle. I just let it rest against my shirt sleeve - Whatever is handy will probally work. 4. Start the Dremel and with 2 hands (and magnifing lenses) gently cut into the rod as close as possible to where it is chucked into the 3/8 drill motor. After 3 or 4 tries and tests with an e-clip, you can tell about how deep to cut.
(I used a headband magnifing visor with reading glasses underneath to be able to see closely enough.)
Now you can put the rod in the vise (with the new slot down just inside the jaws. Bend it over and smack it with a hammer. Remove from vise and cut off exess rod length beyond the new slot. This took about 45 minutes (including learning curve).[This message was edited by Dave Little on 12 September 2003 at 07:51 AM.] |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2003 7:09 am
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Dave,
Please forgive me for digressing a bit in your thread. But I would like to expound a bit if I may on E-clips, bellcranks and pullrods.
To begin, the LeGrande I purchased did NOT use the present 14 hole bellcrank; as is now standard on all Emmons' Legrandes. Rather, it used an older version of their present 4 hole bellcrank; that they still use in a few limited applications.
Immediately I detected a problem with these four hole bellcranks. Firstly, there was NOT enough holes to allow perfect balancing* of multiple pulls on the same crossrod. Secondly, other pull rods would often rub (scrape) on the setscrew shoulder that fixed the rod to the swivel in the bellcranks.
Emmons had just come out with their 14 hole bellcrank when I purchased mine. Sadly, I elected to go with the 4 hole based on incorrect imformation from my best friend.
After I realized my terrible blunder, I was able to get 50, 14 hole bellcranks at a discount (still a lot of money), to make up for my mistake. I thought then and now, that the 14 hole bellcrank is the single greatest improvement to the PSG bar none, since its inception.
Because it is the only bellcrank (except the Linkon which has other major problems), I know of that almost (not quite) gives one infinitely adjustable balance capability. But there was a problem with them. And that concerned that infernal E-clip. IE, getting that thing off and on can be a real pain.
Plus, if one wants to add a pull rod, cutting that groove is another anamoly. So concerned about this, I talked at length to the late Ron Lashley about why he used it.
As Ron always was, he thought my question over for a very long time and then he told me why he could not come up with a better way. After studying it and realizing WHY he used them, I have been unable to come with a better way to hold that rod. I have read all the ideas, but none serves the real purpose that E-clip does. All other ideas I have seen create problems the E-clip method does not present.
So, I believe it is going to be part and parcel for a long time. We will just have to order rods that are pregrooved or cut that groove somehow with a dremel tool, or a small lathe, etc.
Incidently, bending that pullrod is more than it might at first appear. The exact location of the bend; AND the sharpness of the bend is critical in making that bellcrank live up to its greatness. In other words, a bend in the wrong place or a bend that is not sharp causes problems a player should not have to deal with. Also, the location, diameter and width of the groove is very important.
My point in all the above is to advise caution IF one wants to maintain that silky smooth action that spells "Emmons' LeGrandes". Which are truly GRAND PSG's.
carl
* One of the most important requirements on any PSG; to attain smooth pedal and knee lever action; is to have perfectly balanced pulls on its pull rods. NOTHING lends to this smoothness like perfect balancing.
It is a very subtle thing, but ohhhhh how good it feels when ALL changes begin and stop at the precise same time.
So when seeking a new PSG, please don't overlook this very important thing. You will be sooo pleased, if you take this into consideration; after you enjoy the pleasure of this often forgotten aspect of our beloved instrument.
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Sep 2003 7:19 am
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Bravo, Dave! That's just about how I did it, except that I kept the free end of the rod steadied by putting it through hole in a cardboard box that had a weight in the bottom. I made a "V" guage out of two pieces of .016 aluminum. I glued two 1/4" wide strips together to make a very narrow "V", and then put this guage on a rod that was already grooved. I marked where the rod was on the "V", and then cut the notch in my rods until they came to the mark.
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