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Topic: the 'quality' myth.............. |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 17 Jan 2015 2:16 pm |
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With so many different steel guitars being designed, manufactured and sold in the non-pedal market these days.......
one can't help but wonder what the 'mission' might be among these different manufacturers.
Is it the complicated shape of the guitar, the type of exotic material for the bridge, the string spacing and height above the pickup, the weight, the type of wood or other substance for the body, the color available etc..........the driving force?
Do any of them really try to fill a tasteful niche in the guitar world.........like Ric tone, etc.?
This is NOT intended to be a criticism of ANYONE!
Just wondering how so many similar guitars on the market today really fulfill the dreams of today's
demanding player. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 17 Jan 2015 4:50 pm Re: the 'quality' myth..............
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
With so many different steel guitars being designed, manufactured and sold in the non-pedal market these days...one can't help but wonder what the 'mission' might be among these different manufacturers.
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I think they just want something they can call their own! Most all of them are incredibly close, design wise, and if you took the nameplates and fretboards off, most players couldn't tell them apart from 20 feet away. I think it's truly a cottage industry, today, especially since Carter shut down. I'd guess that GFI probably builds more that most anyone now, but I think we can safely say that the really high-volume builders (those who built hundreds and hundreds per year) are a thing of the past.  |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 21 Jan 2015 3:33 pm
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| If everyone stopped building steel guitars right now there would still be enough around to fulfil the demand for decades to come. Other than the mass-produced very cheap models built with left-over 6-string electric guitar parts to an audience of non-steel-guitarists who just want to try one out, today's expensive steels are aimed at people who already have one, and who don't really need another. So they have to have something different to offer, and all the permutations have already been tried. I've always said that a lap steel guitar is basically a plank with strings and a pick-up. All the rest is just cosmetic artwork. |
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Mike Spieth
From:
Santa Fe, New Mexico
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Posted 21 Jan 2015 8:01 pm
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Yeah, Alan, but what a beautiful plank you get for your money! As far as I'm concerned, a guitar which I recently adopted from a fellow forum member is nothing less than a unique work of art.  |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Posted 21 Jan 2015 8:55 pm
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Hmmmm.......I guess it isn't that much different than the "regular" guitar market in which most are clones of a Strat, Tele or Les Paul.
As to the Ric tone you mentioned, from what I gather, the majority of that tone was in the horseshoe pup....and why Rickenbacher took such pains to preserve that by suing Lollar over his version of their horseshoe pups.
It's nice to have "vintage" gear but I dare say that most are not able troubleshoot problems that often occur when buying vintage gear.
Lastly, we have many luthiers in the SGF who are turning out masterful custom-made steels. This isn't the days of Henry Ford when you could buy a car in any color you wanted, so long as it was black.
Now, you can get exactly what you want without having to settle.
Last edited by Stephen Abruzzo on 22 Jan 2015 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 21 Jan 2015 9:02 pm
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To me, the difference is inspiration. When I look at a Pettingill or a Clinesmith, it is a thing of beauty and quality that is a delight to behold and would be totally inspiring to play (if I played non-pedal, which I rarely do). Of course, it must sound terrific too...
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 5:22 am
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I am not a collector. To me it's all about the music and not about the brand name or original pickups and dated potentiometers.
That being said, I do have certain instruments that to my ear sound better than others. For example my old Fender 2000 pedal steel had amazing tone but the cable action was mushy, so I bought a Shobud LDG and it really helped me play better. Do I wish I had kept the old Fender? You bet I DO!
I have owned dozens of guitars and steels in the past and sold most of them because I needed the money. So I understand others that have many instruments in their arsenal.
Of all the one's that I let go, I wish I had kept my old Silvertone lapsteel with the VALCO pickup. I have spent the last 10 years trying to get that sound again. (but on an instrument with more strings)
I also had a Fender Stringmaster (dual 8 string) that I wish I had kept. But in reality the tone was good but not my favorite.
So all that to say: "How many steel guitars doe's the world really need?" For some guys the answer is as many as they can afford, for others as many as their wives will allow. Still others need several to accommodate multiple tunings. For me just a few since I can only really play one at a time.
I will perhaps buy, sell and trade a few more searching for the ultimate in tone and practicality, but currently I am downsizing my assortment.
Dom
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Deirdre Higgins
From:
Connecticut, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 7:10 am
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| Other than the mass-produced very cheap models built with left-over 6-string electric guitar parts to an audience of non-steel-guitarists who just want to try one out. |
I am afraid I fall into this category, A year ago I purchased a very inexpensive model from Morrell to start out with to see if I would like steel guitar.
A year later finding out that I love to play SG, I am still using the student model because I cannot afford anything else, so there is a need for those inexpensive mass produced models if anything else but to draw more people towards this instrument.
I am so used to how I sound with a cheap lap steel, I really wouldn't know what the difference would be if I were to use an expensive model sound wise.
_________________
Jerry Byrd Fan |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 8:00 am Profit
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Profit is the Motivation to buy a TriMaran in Tahiti. 
Last edited by George Piburn on 26 Jan 2015 12:18 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 8:09 am
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Most of us gravitate toward the guitar that is played by our favorite hero, thinking we can sound like that. When it's not quite there, we trade and buy toward that goal. Eventually, we realize it's his right hand and maybe the barometric pressure at the time. Sustain and pickup tone is a guitar factor. If you get into pedals, it becomes a mechanical factor. Playing an old classic guitar is just fun.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 12:19 pm
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| Deirdre Higgins wrote: |
| ...I am still using the student model because I cannot afford anything else... |
I started building lap steels in 1963 because there were no lap steels available in the shops and I wouldn't have been able to afford one even if there were. Anyone can build a lap steel. You should try it. Unlike a regular guitar, where it takes years to learn how to build a playable fingerboard on a comfortable neck, and how to get a good acoustic tone out of the body, a lap steel is a piece of cake. There's very little that can go wrong with it. Then, after a while, you start to get artistic ideas and they start looking better. I've known amateurs who have built beautiful lap steels on their first try and never built another one before or since.
So have a go, Deirdre. What have you got to lose? You might even find that building becomes a new hobby in itself. 
In all the lap and console steels I've built over the years, I've never sold one, but I've given plenty away. I just build for the pleasure of it, and to experiment with new configurations. |
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Larry Carlson
From:
My Computer
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 12:58 pm
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| Deirdre Higgins wrote: |
| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| Other than the mass-produced very cheap models built with left-over 6-string electric guitar parts to an audience of non-steel-guitarists who just want to try one out. |
I am afraid I fall into this category, A year ago I purchased a very inexpensive model from Morrell to start out with to see if I would like steel guitar.
A year later finding out that I love to play SG, I am still using the student model because I cannot afford anything else, so there is a need for those inexpensive mass produced models if anything else but to draw more people towards this instrument.
I am so used to how I sound with a cheap lap steel, I really wouldn't know what the difference would be if I were to use an expensive model sound wise. |
That is exactly what I did.
I can't play acoustic guitar much anymore because of arthritis so I decided to try lap steel.
To avoid wasting money I bought the cheapest one I could find, a Rogue.
I played it for a while and liked it. I modified it a bit and really liked it and now I am hooked.
I never thought I would enjoy it this much.
If someone had never made a cheap entry level lap steel I would have never found this great new avenue for me to be able to play music again.
It keeps my old sclerotic brain active and me out of my wife's hair. It's a win-win for everyone. 
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying. |
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Tony Lombardo
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 2:43 pm
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I hate to be the guy who states the simplest answer, but I think profit is the "'mission' . . . among these different manufacturers." I think the answer has far more to do with John Maynard Keynes and Adam Smith than it has to do with Leo Fender or P.A. Bigsby.
Tony L. |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 2:54 pm
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Like a lot of folks, I have SGAS (steel guitar acquisition syndrome), especially when it comes to non-pedal steels. For pedal steel, I went from an S10(33/4) ShoBud (1975-81)to a D10 (8/4) ShoBud Pro III (1981- 2000) and Carter D10 (8/5) which I hae been playing since Y2K. For non-pedal steel, I keep looking for the holy grail - Rickenbachers, Fenders, JB Frypan, among others. My current fave-raves are my D8 Canopus and my S8 Asher Alan Akaka special, which has excellent sustain and tone, even though I have to tote my JB Frypan around for playing in B11. The search goes on!
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Alex Shi
From:
Taiwan
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 3:26 pm
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| Deirdre Higgins wrote: |
| ...I am still using the student model because I cannot afford anything else... |
I started building lap steels in 1963 because there were no lap steels available in the shops and I wouldn't have been able to afford one even if there were. Anyone can build a lap steel. You should try it. Unlike a regular guitar, where it takes years to learn how to build a playable fingerboard on a comfortable neck, and how to get a good acoustic tone out of the body, a lap steel is a piece of cake. There's very little that can go wrong with it. Then, after a while, you start to get artistic ideas and they start looking better. I've known amateurs who have built beautiful lap steels on their first try and never built another one before or since.
So have a go, Deirdre. What have you got to lose? You might even find that building becomes a new hobby in itself.
In all the lap and console steels I've built over the years, I've never sold one, but I've given plenty away. I just build for the pleasure of it, and to experiment with new configurations. |
Great post. There are no lap steels available where I live, but I really wanted to try one. I'm a lousy carpenter, so I got a pine 2x4, a prewired pickup on ebay, tuners from an old guitar, took an old aircon mounting bracket to the local metal shop and the guy cut it up for bridge and nut (for free) and I have a lot of fun learning to play. This is probably the most crude lap steel ever posted here, but maybe it will encourage others.
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Deirdre Higgins
From:
Connecticut, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 5:54 pm
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| Alex Shi wrote: |
Great post. There are no lap steels available where I live, but I really wanted to try one. I'm a lousy carpenter, so I got a pine 2x4, a prewired pickup on ebay, tuners from an old guitar, took an old aircon mounting bracket to the local metal shop and the guy cut it up for bridge and nut (for free) and I have a lot of fun learning to play. This is probably the most crude lap steel ever posted here, but maybe it will encourage others.
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Alex, for a first try at making a lap steel I think you did a great job, you say you don't have talent, but you know what? practice makes perfect, Maybe you could make another and refine it even more, who knows you may just end up being the only manufacturer in the area
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Jerry Byrd Fan |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 7:13 pm
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Alex, I agree, looks like a fine build that should serve you well. And nothing implied, but I wonder if anyone else found it amusing that a poster from Taiwan would say "There are no lap steels available where I live"?
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Alex Shi
From:
Taiwan
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 7:25 pm
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| Deirdre Higgins wrote: |
| Alex Shi wrote: |
Great post. There are no lap steels available where I live, but I really wanted to try one. I'm a lousy carpenter, so I got a pine 2x4, a prewired pickup on ebay, tuners from an old guitar, took an old aircon mounting bracket to the local metal shop and the guy cut it up for bridge and nut (for free) and I have a lot of fun learning to play. This is probably the most crude lap steel ever posted here, but maybe it will encourage others.
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Alex, for a first try at making a lap steel I think you did a great job, you say you don't have talent, but you know what? practice makes perfect, Maybe you could make another and refine it even more, who knows you may just end up being the only manufacturer in the area |
Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I'm planning to work on a second more long-term model. Maybe add a bit of paint, ha! |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 7:28 pm
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Nice job on a simple Guitar Alex !
Someone showed up at one of the steel guitar conventions years ago, with a simple 2X4 guitar, and it sounded "normal", which many store-bought guitars do.
I built some "home-builts" with different species of wood,like Ash, Mahogany, Cherry, Walnut, Purple Heart, Maple etc, and one from Corian. I have to say that none approached the sound/tone etc of a Rick bakelite or pre-war frypan, in my ears. That's not to say the many guitars don't have great sound. Of course it's that old "in the ears of the beholder"
And I gave most of them away, along with a bunch of tube amps I built. It was just the fun & satisfaction of building the stuff. |
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Alex Shi
From:
Taiwan
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Posted 22 Jan 2015 7:30 pm
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| Mark van Allen wrote: |
| Alex, I agree, looks like a fine build that should serve you well. And nothing implied, but I wonder if anyone else found it amusing that a poster from Taiwan would say "There are no lap steels available where I live"? |
Well, I meant, you cannot buy any. I'd have to order from overseas with hefty shipping and customs fees. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 23 Jan 2015 3:48 am
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| Alex Shi wrote: |
| I'm planning to work on a second more long-term model. Maybe add a bit of paint, ha! |
Hold the paint on mine.
I think the steel is inventive, looks like some ingenuity in the details, very minimalist.
Now where's that 2 x 4....  |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2015 9:37 am
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I purchased a cheapy lap steel guitar on eBay, to see if I could play the lap steel, and if I liked it. The guitar I purchased was tuned in open A. I played it a bit and knew nothing of alternate tunings, eventually, I gave up on it, didn't like it at all. I eventually decided to build a pedal steel guitar. Having only seen pictures, and explanations of how they were made, I built a six string pedal steel, which worked marginally okay. I still have it, and plan to tear it apart and rebuild it so it functions better. I eventually built a solid aluminum 7 string pedal steel, which I really liked a lot, and I resolved all the intonation problems of my first one. I eventually had to sell it as I needed the money.  So, not wanting to take so much time to build another pedal steel, I built a lap steel, and tuned it to Am7. I liked it. At first I just strummed it like a regular guitar, and lately have finally figured out how to play melodies, and play triads or 2 note chords (I use a flat pick.) Eventually I built a 7 string and then 8 string. I now tune to C6 on my 8 string. The more I play my 8 string, the more I like it.
I decided to start making and selling lap steel guitars, because it's fun and enjoyable to make them. I enjoy making things, creating things. I make all the parts that I can myself, including the pickup. I'm shooting for great tone, long sustain, and a beautiful appearance. I am mainly a metal worker (not wood so much), so, making guitars from aluminum, for me, makes sense, and, aluminum can have great sustain, and a unique sound.
It is easy to make a lap steel guitar. It is not easy to get the beautiful finish on wood, don't let anyone tell you different, it is a real art form. Wood lap steel guitars can be a real work of art, very beautiful, and I admire and respect the builders of these guitars. I'm also attempting this kind of beautiful wood work, and it's a lot of work, and takes a huge amount of time.
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 23 Jan 2015 10:50 am
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| Alex Shi wrote: |
| ...I'm a lousy carpenter, so I got a pine 2x4, a prewired pickup on ebay, tuners from an old guitar, took an old aircon mounting bracket to the local metal shop and the guy cut it up for bridge and nut (for free) and I have a lot of fun learning to play. This is probably the most crude lap steel ever posted here, but maybe it will encourage others... |
No, it's not the most crude lap steel ever posted on the Forum by far, Alex. It's pretty good for a first attempt. I notice that almost everybody puts six strings on their first lap steel, and I think it has more to do with the fact that the regular guitar has six strings and so fittings, especially pick-ups, are more easily obtainable, but it's very limiting. The next time you build one, Alex, you should think of putting eight strings on it. That makes playing in C6, for instance, a lot easier. Meanwhile, well done. I hope it encourages everyone else to build. It's not difficult. |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 23 Jan 2015 11:15 am FretBoards made easy
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Since this thread has drifted into a build your own compliment thread.
My biggest challenge when I started out Building was the Fret Board Layout and placement of the Nut and Bridge.
Our parts.html page has vinyl peel n stick FB's with Alignment lines on either end to eliminate need for rulers searches calculators and so on for exact placement of nut and bridge with a center line to help out too. I've discovered that for every one person that buys a steel guitar from us , a 100 want to build one. This is why our new Mission is to create and offer parts for the DIY Builder and as Tony Said --Massive Profits-- to afford the Trimaran in Tahiti. |
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