Steel bar question

Jim Ives · From: Los Angeles, California, USA

I have a hard time lifting my steel bar off the strings; I just can't grip it tight enough. I have strong hands but short-ish fingers. Does anyone know of a bar that has a grip to it, perhaps like a lap-steel bar but weighty enough to use on the PSG?
Also, are there bars made of a composite material, something other than steel, to obtain a different tone? It seems to me that the bar-to-string contact and quality is akin to "where the rubber meets the road" and would be a major factor in tone.

Input?

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Mullen D-10
Boss RV3
Evans FET 500
Fender Twin Reverb

Sho-Bud Pro II D10
Peavey Nashvile 400
Fender Stratocaster

nick allen · From: France

Response to both questions!
Red Rajah - some like 'em, some don't (I do)but worth trying. http://www.aguitarcenter.com/
Nick

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

Jim, in the "old days" we used a tapered bar,
You might find someone on the Forum who has one or you could have one made. My favorite one was about 1" at the back and tapered to about 5/8" at the nose which was rounded. It was drilled out about 2/3's into it from the back 1/2" hole to lighten it but there was plenty of mass left to provide the tone. It was much easier to hold onto then the non tapered bars we use now.
Jerry

Gino Iorfida · From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

I have a 1" bar made by a local gentleman that has a flat steel plate attached to the back side of the bar. Works like a charm (in fact he builds these bars for new players and those with issues holdign the bar etc). The only reason I don't use the bar is I prefer a 7/8" bar. I'd be willing to part with this if you are interested in trading something etc. let me know.

[This message was edited by Gino Iorfida on 22 July 2003 at 09:33 AM.]

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Carter Steel Guitars sells bars with grooves ground in the side, that sound like what you're looking for - http://www.steelguitar.com/accessor/accedesc.htm#GrooveToneBars
A couple of people make glass bars - a friend of b0b's just sent me one prototype, but he's still working on them. These people make the "Slipperyslides" - http://www.lapdancerguitars.com/Slides.htm
Glass slides are light and hence sustain less, but they have a great tone and are easy to hang on to. Here is a link to a forum discussion about some nice wood bars, but the picture doesn't seem to want to come through - http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/004811.html
I have one of these lignum vitae bars, and I like it a lot - again, not the sustain, but it has a nice tone for boppy lines, sort of like a fat jazz guitar. I have the guy's e-mail around here somewhere, if you're interested. There are some metal-filled nylon bars that were manufactured to simulate a dobro, I think Scotty's music has them still - http://www.scottysmusic.com/goodrich01.htm
Scroll to the bottom to "Match-Bro Bar".
Sometimes I also play with a piece of PVC pipe, for a pseudo-koto tone. I've tried cramming a roll of pennies into the PVC for more sustain, but it adds some horrible vibrations - one of these days I'll glue them in there with some casting resin. If you're like me, you'll end up with one of every size of metal bars too. The big ones are easier to hang on to, the little ones are faster.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

P.S. It's not necessarily gripping the bar so tight that helps you lift it, as it is tucking the butt end into the ball of your thumb. A fairly short (3 1/4") bar helps with this, as does some sort of recess - Jim Burden's Bullet bars are great this way because they have a concave butt - http://www.bulletbars.com/images.html

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

My sixty years of playing steel guitar will likely add very little to your expanding knowledge base however, from where I sit,this is the picture I get:
I don't play DOBRO and know nothing about them so don't assume I do. Some of the following might very well be a conflict.
For my playing, I have just two (2)bars.
One is a Buddy Emmons SOLID bar, fairly heavy and sounds great.
The other is about the same size and has at least a portion of it ground out but it is still a moderate weight bar and easily covers a majority of strings when playing on the Emmons.
I can lift my bar off my strings quite easily as I do it in somewhat of a left to right sweeping motion of the left hand. I use the thumb to press a little firmer on the SIDE of the bar and presto, up it comes.
OR, you can increase your grip and roll your left hand to the left, keeping your fingers on the strings and using the ring finger as a pivot for the lifting process.
WHY LIFT it off your strings anyway, are you playing staccato? or however you spell it? Good Luck toward solving your dilema.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Jim,
I'm gonna recommend something a bit different. Learning to play clean single notes with the nose of the bar is a valuable technique. If you play a simple scale, like



1------------------------------------------


2-------------------8----8-----------------


3------------------------------------------


4---------------------8--------------------


5------------8~~8A---------8A~~8-----------


6-----8~~8B-----------------------8B~~8----


7---8-----------------------------------8--


8-8---------------------------------------8

I'd suggest you begin with the back/blunt side of the bar lifted/angled just far enough off the strings to avoid the bar contacting them -- you can kinda tuck it into the space between your thumb and forefinger -- and play each note with the nose of the bar only contacting the string you're playing. Advance up and back down according to the tab, teaching your right and left hand to home in on what the other is doing. Another added bonus is that, on the way down, you don't have to block anything if you extend your middle finger slightly past the end of the bar.

This will improve your left hand dexterity considerably and lifting or positioning the bar will become easier.

My two cents. And Ray's right, you really don't need to lift the whole bar off the strings very often. Concentrating on your RIGHT HAND technique will help avoid having to use the bar hand for blocking by lifting.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I've seen a few players (mostly beginners) try to grip the bar too hard, or with too many fingers. That can cause problems!

What works for me is to only hold (or grip) the bar with thumb and middle finger. The index finger rests on the top, and exerts very little downward pressure. (Let the weight of the bar do most of the "work".) It's also easier if you grip the bar at it's centerline, or even slightly below. Squeezing it near the top just causes it to "squirt" out of your hand. Also, larger bars are somewhat easier to "grip" than smaller ones. I wouldn't suggest any smaller that 7/8" in diameter for a 8 or 10-string guitar.

Don Walters · From: Saskatchewan Canada

I have very dry hands and have had some problems with gripping the bar until I started using a 15/16" bar. I found the 7/8" would slip out of my hand ocassionally, and the 1" just felt a little too heavy. I struggled with both sizes for about 5 years, then tried the 15/16". It has been great for me, no problems at all.

I'm not suggesting that bar size is the only issue, but it may be a significant factor, at least for some people.

[This message was edited by Don Walters on 24 July 2003 at 08:16 AM.]

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

I almost earned a living with my steel from 1947 til 1950, and all during that time, never knew any better than to play with a Stevens bar. (with the grooves you're talking about) Just in the last few years, have I even started to learn the proper bar use. Don't get one with grooves, learn the proper technique! Bobbe finally took the Stevens away from me about 1968, the same time he convinced me to learn to use the 3rd finger pick! I've never been sorry! C6th, my favorite tuning, is chock full of 4 pick grips that he showed me! E9th, it seemed to me 3 picks was enough. (?)

[This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 24 July 2003 at 09:09 AM.]

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