Adding Franklin pedal to Emmons

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I would like to add the Franklin pedal to my Emmons LeGrande. However, I am not about to move everything to the right one notch! I have a pedal kit coming from Ron Jr. and I plan to add it to the left of my 1st or A pedal. Have any of you ever done this? I checked things out quite well and I think there is room to do it. Please advise!
Erv

[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 10 July 2003 at 09:22 AM.]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

works great there, Erv

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

If you have an Emmons LeGrande; and you do NOT want to move the pedals over; AND you want the PF to be pedal number one; you have a problem.

Both the cabinet AND the pedal bar are predrilled and designed for pedals to be in specific places.

Not saying it cannot be done. But there are several road blocks ahead of you. I will list some of them:

1. There is NOT enough room to the left of pedal one on the pedal bar to equally space another pedal.

2. Drilling the holes necessary in the front and rear aprons of the cabinet is NOT easy. I have done it, but it is a bear.

3. The steel "stop" bar that is classic emmons ends at your present pedal one. You could install another piece of steel, but it would not be easy to do.

4. You would need rods longer than what Emmons stocks. Longer ones could be made, but I am sure their cost would be considerably higher.

I would strongly suggest you consider moving the pedals. I am positive that after all is said and done, you would come out faster and cheaper and less hassles.

At any rate, may Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

David Doggett · Posted 10 Jul 2003 9:36 am

I have the same problem with my Fessy S12U. I would like to add a pedal to the left of the AB pedals, but there does not appear to be enough room for a normal pedal bar and bracket for it. Since I only have 6 pedals there is plenty of room to move all the pedals over one to the right. But then I would have to repostion the left knee levers. What a hassle. The manufacturers seem to be only thinking of adding pedals on the right for the C6 or B6 stuff. They need to update their thinking and allow room for adding at least one E9 pedal on the left.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

My bad . . .
I had assumed Erv meant there WAS a spare hole pre-drilled and all he had to do was insert a cross-shaft, bellcranks, and pull rods. I would never attempt that major a modification myself and respect Carl for pulling it off, but agree it's probably easier to remove everything and move everything over. Hopefully, the tilt on the levers will be adjustable enough you won't have to move ALL of them.

Sorry for the confusion. The change works well in the '0' position, to the left of the first E9 pedal. I've had it there and in the 4th position and I prefer it to the left of the 'A' pedal.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Carl,
What you are saying is what I am up against. My plans are to have a 0 pedal to the left of no. 1 pedal. I talked to Ron Jr. about it and he really didn't discourage me. He said I could move the steel bar over as it is made long enough for 9 foot pedals. And also I would have to drill a couple of more holes in the foot pedal bar. I am going to get everything mounted in place and then measure the length for the pull rods. Ron will make them whatever length I need.
I recently added 3 knee levers for the C6th neck so figure this should be a piece of cake!
Erv

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Erv,

I am not going against Ron Jr. But I will tell you this. That steel bar was screwed on there before the flocking went on.

I do not recall whether it was glued as well as screwed, but even if it was just screwed on, it would really wreck that flocking on and around it. If you dont care about that aspect, then of course it is a moot point.

IT would take a lot to get me to move that bar. But you are not me.

Have you considered ONLY moving the first 3 pedals. IE, Pedal Zero, pedal A, B and C in lieu of pedals A, B and C and pedal 4?

I really feel this might be a better treck in the long run. However again, this is ONLY my opinion.

It is best that YOU are happy. And if it means moving that bar, and going thru the hassle of drilling into the front and rear aprons and pedal bar and having a pedal that is closer than the others, go for it friend.

carl

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Carl,
Thank you soooo much for your help and concern. Believe me, I am going to look things over reaaaaaly close before I go chopping up my LeGrande! Ron is going to send me the pedal kit and if all else fails I will have it and maybe just add it to the other end of my guitar. Let me ask you, my friend, do you have the Franklin change on your guitar? Maybe it's something that I really don't need or will use.
Erv

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I don't have the Franklin change. But I will. Just have not got around to putting it on. I will use pedal 4 when I do. I realize that some wish it to be on pedal zero. But I believe other factors preclude that as being the most desirable. One of the prime reasons for NOT putting it as pedal zero, I will use it with LKR (lowering the E's) a lot, and this would be awkward for me if it was pedal zero.

The ONLY advantage I see to having it on pedal Zero is it is used sometimes before (or after) the A pedal. But I have fast feet when it comes to moving from one pedal to another one a few pedals away. So this should present no obstacle to me.

Again, YOU are the one that must be happy here. NOT anyone else. So I believe you are very wise by giving it a lot of thought. Thoroughly studying a project BEFORE jumping in, often prevents costly and sometimes horrible mistakes.

Finally, IF there is ANY chance you would sell the LeGrand in the future, NO one would have a problem with it being pedal 4 or having 9 regular pedals. Many would reject a PSG that had been modified. Please consider this with much thought before you drill the first hole friend.

carl

Gino Iorfida · From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

.... and let's not forget, the man who first used the change, and it's named after DOES have it on pedal 4, not pedal 0

Franklin · Posted 11 Jul 2003 4:20 pm

Carl,

I am not aware of your exact universal copedant but if you raise both F#'s to G# you will be able to benefit from the fourth pedal as if it were split into two pulls with that additional raise. I agree having fast feet helps overcome alot of obstacles.
The fourth positioning is really not a problem.

Paul

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Thanks for all the help, guys! For what it's worth, I already have the 6th string drop for G# to F# on a knee lever. Has anyone put the 5th and 10th string drop on a knee lever? I have a vertical knee lever that I use to drop the B's to Bb so that possibility is pretty much out, unless I use the vertical to drop it to A with a half stop. This, in conjunction with my other knee lever will give me the Franklin change, right?
Erv

[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 12 July 2003 at 08:45 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I have decided to try and add the Franklin change to my vertical lever. If I can, I will add a half stop so I can get both the Bb and the A on the 5th and 10th string and maybe even put in the whole tone drop on the 6th string. Even though I already have that change on another knee lever.
Thanks for all the help.

Erv

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Thanks Paul,

Yes Erv, it is my understanding that Tommy White has split the PF pedal. IE, he lowers 5 and 10 separately with lowering the 6th string. I believe I heard him embelish this change; coordinating the two on the Grand Ole Opry.

Since I have long since lowered the 6th string a whole tone on RKL, I am seriously considering just lowering 5 and 10 a whole tone with the 4th pedal. In my head I have not a problem with it. But that does not mean in actual practice it will exactly do what the PF pedal does.

Having been in R & D for many years, the ole phrase "the best laid plans often go array" is appropo here.

We will see.

carl

Wayne Baker · From: Altus Oklahoma

Why would you want to add Franklin's pedal to Emmons. If Emmons wants another pedal he can add it himself....

I know, not funny, but I just had to. I apologize.

Wayne Baker

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Wayne,
That's OK, we forgive you!

Erv

Eugene Cole · From: near Washington Grove, MD, USA

Carl wrote:
"4. You would need rods longer than what Emmons stocks. Longer ones could be made, but I am sure their cost would be considerably higher."

I am not wanting to pick on Carl per se'
And I may be ignorant (go there gently) about the rods used in Emmons guitars. But the bare minimum of stuff that one needs (in basic K.I.S.S. form) to make custom rods is with 1 exception all fairly inexpensive and easy to use by even a mechanical-novice.

My list of stuff includes the following:
* Die to cut threads
* Die holder
* Stock (the make the rods from)
* An abrasive stone/block (to bevel the rod ends)
* A vise or in a pinch a locking plier (think Vise-Grip) to hold the rod still while you cut threads, bevel rod ends, and cut thr rod to length.

The expensive exception I am thinking of is finding and buying a tool that will consistantly cut your rod to length cleanly and squarely. I have use a pnuematic "cut off" tool, and a similar cut-off wheel tool that is driven by an electric drill. I think that a Dremmel-like tool would also work for this task. Cutting rod cleanly and squarely makes it A LOT easier to bevel the rod-ends and to cut threads in to the rod.

Is there something proprietary about Emmons rods? If so then please tell me about it.

Besides everyone on this Forum has at least 2 large milling machines and 2 large lathes out in their state of the art 7000 square foot climate controlled shop. RIGHT?

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Regards
-- Eugene@FJ45.com

[This message was edited by Eugene Cole on 15 July 2003 at 05:32 PM.]

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

It seems to me that the most painless way of getting a pull rod is just sending Ron Jr. $15.26 for a pull train assembly. You get the bellcrank and whatever length pull rod you need. Besides, you have to be able to put a real sharp angle on the end of the pull rod and also cut a groove for that pesky clip.

Erv

[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 16 July 2003 at 06:55 AM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I have been trying to purchase some 7/64" SS rods. No one I called could get them for me. Emmons' LeGrandes use 7/64" pull rods, but they are not stainless steel. I am not sure of their composite makeup.

Finally I found a place in miami that would get them for me. they were 3 times the cost of 1/8" stainless steel rods. They explained this was due to the fact that NO one ever asks for 7/64".

Ron Lashley told me that the reason he went to 7/64" instead of 1/8" is because a 4-40 thread is easier to cut on the 7/64" because a 1/8" rod is really designed for a 5-40 die/thread. And these are not common like a 4-40 is.

Go figger.

carl

carl

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Wayne Baker · From: Altus Oklahoma

Hey guys, I just put the "Franklin change" on my "A" pedal, and moved everything else over one. I like it so far. My big fear is that on my next gig I will be pushing my first two pedals down and nothing will happen.

Thanks,
Wayne Baker

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