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Topic: Relative positions of pedals and lever? |
Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 16 Dec 2014 1:21 am |
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| Specifically, my left/left knee lever (LKL) makes it awkward to roll my foot onto the A pedal without actuating the lever as well, or should I say it requires some contortions that I struggle with. When viewed straight on, the lever sits about halfway between the A and B pedals. Does this sound normal? It seems to me it wants to be further left to give better access to the A pedal, however, if I moved it it would have to sit to the left of the A pedal so the crossbar would fit between the A and B crossbars. I hope this makes sense.... |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 16 Dec 2014 1:36 am
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| Position your body to the right, so that your centerline is in line with the 17th fret, not the center of the instrument, and this will alter the angle of your left leg, making it easier to operate the pedals without accidentally actuating a knee lever. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 16 Dec 2014 4:54 am
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Many guitars put that lever even farther right than that.
It's a matter of getting used to a fairly unaccustomed set of motions.
Richard Burton offers good advice, too. I'd really recommend lessons in person, they can help with getting used to these machines.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 16 Dec 2014 5:53 am
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| Many guys (including me) raise the A pedal a bit higher than the B pedal as well for a few different ergonomic and playability reasons. It may help. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 16 Dec 2014 7:31 am
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Are you a new player? If so, does your knee move to the right or left when you rock on and off the pedals? Your knee should not move at all, or barely at all. I see this in just about every new player I have seen. A good way that I found to help stop this, is to hold your knee with your hands so it won't move. Then practice bending your ankle right and left as if you were at your guitar (the preferred place), sitting down anywhere. You want all your pedal movements to be made with your ankle, not the whole leg. You need to train your ankle to make those movements effortlessly and pailessly, although it may hurt at first.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Dec 2014 8:01 am
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What Richard said. 
But with that in mind, some guitars do make it difficult to do the rocking motion because the knee levers are too far to the left or right. Probably 75%-90% of your playing involves the A&B pedals, so ideally, your lower leg should not be angled (that is, your knee should be in-line with your heel) when you're activating A&B pedals, and not activating a knee lever.  |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 16 Dec 2014 10:03 am
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| Thanks for the great advice. Yes I am a new player, and unfortunately the nearest teacher is about 5 hours from me. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2014 11:33 am
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If centering around the 15th fret (or so) and raising the A-pedal doesn't get you there, you can change the angle of the knee levers on most guitars by turning a small adjustment screw.
Any time you get a new guitar, you'll want to custom fit the angle on all the of the levers so they hang in the right spot when not engaged. Personal preference will dictate. I like them as close as possible without accidentally engaging one while moving between pedals.
But before adjusting, you do want to start out sitting in the position that Richard suggested. Most newbies don't know this and sit at the center of the instrument. In the correct position, your right leg will be perpendicular to the back apron and your left leg will hit at about a 45-degree angle. I don't know, historically, how this all evolved, but most steel makers position the left knee levers assuming players will sit this way. |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 16 Dec 2014 1:49 pm
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Cool tips. I'll try the right leg perpendicular and left at 45deg, also lowering the B pedal a little and I'll look at the movement in my left knee and also my ankle twist.
I've been sitting both legs normal, and centered around the 12th "fret". No wonder it seems all wrong.
Thanks for the help folks. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 16 Dec 2014 5:01 pm
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HI Marty yes move a little more to the right around the 15th, lower the B pedal a bit and probably raise the A pedal a bit so you can roll your ankle to the left without catching the B pedal - you'll find you won't have to move your leg quite so far to the left.
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 17 Dec 2014 11:13 am
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Marty one of any of us could do Skype with you and get you set up right. I would echo to sit behind the 15th fret. right leg perpendicular to the guitar body. The idea is to make the ergonomics become second nature. Once you get into playing, you won't have time to be looking at anything but your left hand.
~Bill |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 17 Dec 2014 12:43 pm
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Well heck.... I was doing it all wrong. Tried the right leg perpendicular/left leg 45degrees thing and it made a huge difference. Doing that also put my right hand in a nice comfortable position. Tonight I'll tweak the A and B pedals and life will be wonderful again.
I also took the bottom off my Dunlop volume pedal (the old style one) and worked out how I can trim nearly an inch off the height of it! Yes!
All I gotta do now is learn to play the darn thing! |
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Bob Moore
From:
N. Rose, New York
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Posted 23 Dec 2014 6:15 pm Knee levers
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I have a older (MSA D10) and have the same problem. I was able to adjust the LL but not the LR. The adjustment doesn't let me properly adjust lever so I don't move it accidently
bob |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 23 Dec 2014 7:15 pm
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I have problems with ankle movement re: the B pedal / E lever actuation. My B pedal is a little higher than most, so I'm not depressing the A pedal too, as my ankle rotates well to the outside (A side) but limited to the inside (B side).
It takes trying it till you get it the way that works for you.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 11:24 pm ergonomics
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Well, I finally had to do it. I had seen this words so many times on the forum, I had to look it up and find out what it meant. WOW what a wonderful word, they didn't have all these words when I went to school. Anyway now I know what is being said.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 3:17 am Helpful Forum members
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| Jim, these Forum members can be so helpful, which is particularly important when you are learning the correct habits. steve t |
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Jack Mansfield
From:
Reno, NV
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 10:05 am Pedals and levers
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| I have always had trouble with e and f levers on my left leg. Any guitar that came that way I have always had them put on the right side and the d lever on the left. So I only use three knees any way. |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 1:34 pm
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Heck.... my 67 year old left ankle (my right one is the same age) is having a devil of a job learning to twist ...... it's got about as much twist in it as um ... er.... a non-twisty thing! And I might have to make a little wooden platform to raise my heel about an inch or so. I just cant bend my ankle back enough for the heel to sit on the ground without depressing the pedals. I cant lower the pedals any more because the C pedal is right to the floor to get the correct raise. Maybe I can figure a way of altering the crank ratios some more to decrease the pedal travel required, and this would enable the pedals to sit closer to the ground.
Excuse me, I'm just thinking out loud...... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 1:55 pm
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Marty, if your guitar has the option, move the rods farther out on the bellcrank. It will decrease the pedal travel at the cost of making it stiffer.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 4:34 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| Marty, if your guitar has the option, move the rods farther out on the bellcrank. It will decrease the pedal travel at the cost of making it stiffer. |
Thanks Lane. I already have them mounted off the top hole on the bellcranks. Maybe I can make up some little extensions to bolt on to the bell cranks, thus making them longer. I guess it's easier to make a little wooden platform for my heel, carpet on one side and rubber feet on the other. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 5:40 pm
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Many guitars have an adjustment on the knee lever that allows you to change the point where it engages, and the point where it stops. What brand of guitar are you playing?
On my Desert Rose, the angle of the knee lever is set by a little set screw under the lever. By combining that setting with the lever stop, I can get a comfortable lever position without changing the bell crank action.
_________________
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 6:40 pm
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Hi Bob,
It's not the levers that are the problem, it's the pedals. With my left heel on the floor, my left ball (of the foot, of the foot!!) is resting on the pedals, and is activating them slightly. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 6:47 pm
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Oh. I thought you were talking about the position of the LKL knee lever. Guess I misunderstood. Sorry for the diversion.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2014 11:52 pm
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Marty, if you can't lower your pedals any more, maybe try wearing shoes with a substantial heel.
Er... And you do know how to lower the pedals without messing with the bellcrank, right? Just checking... |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 29 Dec 2014 11:54 am
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Hi Tucker,
Yep, I have completely stripped and rebuilt this PSG, including the changer and all the mechanicals. Cowboy boots would be good for the high heel, but I dont have any, so I'll build a little heel platform. I can bend my foot back enough, but it hurts like heck, and I can only maintain it for 30 seconds. |
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